Accent Core at EVO! YOU can make it happen!

Testament- name the situation where he can’t do a bandlands loop. seriously. i’ve seen it off the opponent being on the ground. forward ex beast frc loop. and he does do 50% off a throw. i can reference vids if you want.

Jam- thats a bold faced lie. here i’ll even refence videos where she does hella damage off nothing
at 5:25 40% simple air combo.
[media=youtube]8sThNC86NYM&mode=related&search=[/media]

at 2:27 combo started off c.k 80% prorate does 30% where he bursts and jam avoids. she then proceeds to do a 50% combo no guard bar or meter.
[media=youtube]eeshOkt3pXM[/media]

I still can’t believe i’m arguing this with you. you can just look for the stuff online. do you even watch matches.

heres the newest pot loop corner. recent match from a-cho check it out before its gone. its a streaming video so just open the url in wmp.

http://www.a-cho.com/meta/acho_ggxx_20070405d.asx

at :58 you’ll notice he does the pot slam and then jumps at him and does it again. eddie gets hit because its hella meaty and not sure to how avoid. then eats a 60% combo and pot proceeds to do another one but messes up but eddie still dies.

well i covered your three characters give me counter points to these. we all know pot has a mid screen gay loop. we also KNOW that jam does stupid damage and i dont wanna be up all night reviewing match vids of gay stuff. I never said that slash was balanced, it just wasn’t as retarded as accent core.

Chaotic Blue

p.s. that was a full screen slam too. hella gay o wait i didn’t cover eddie. i’ll do that tomorrow. its really easy to find stupid matches of eddied doing stupid retarded stuff and winning. Now find me matches of 4 characters in slash doing some (seemingly) unescapable stuff or huge dmg no meter. and i’ll accept your arguement that accent core is as bad as slash

…you seriously call this big damage? you must be joking, because everyone knows you’ve been playing Jam since X first came out. She ALWAYS did this much damage off random, dumb shit like IAD 214k.

Combo off of 2K used a charged flying kick. Combo after burst needed 25% meter for the FB party ball.

i say we replace gg with dpc money matches.

yessir.

Find me a vid where he does 50% tensionless off a throw on non-lights and it’ll be something special and not just GG in general. I know Testament is ridiculous, but you seem to enjoy exaggerating how much damage things do.

More like 30-35% off a counter-hit j214K into a midscreen 2H > 6H to air combo- the setup for the “simple air combo” is tricky, have you tried doing midscreen 6H combos?

~15-20% damage off a 2K WITH A K CHARGE AND 25% TENSION. Burst punish (TERRIBLE burst, btw) situation = guardbar resets while Sol is way up in the air, Jam gets to start her punish with an unprorated move into multiple reps of heavy hits… and it does ~40%. Sure, that’s a lot of damage to be doing tensionless, but a) corner, b) no prorate, c) IT’S GUILTY GEAR. High damage burst punishes are nothing new, and given how badly people used to burst in the US I’m surprised that you find a high damage burst punish surprising at all.

That setup looks like it’s punishable by reversal backdash for most characters. Not just avoidable, but outright punishable. Any kind of move that has low invincibility on startup would probably do the trick as well. Plus it looks like Eddie stood up and ate the 3rd Slide Head (which led to ~50% damage for 25% tension but that’s just being picky). That’s why I mentioned the setup taking meter, 'cuz the corner shield -> slide head setup isn’t safe to backdash or reversal.
Sure, Pot can punish backdashes or reversals by baiting them, but there goes your whole “unescapable” argument if he needs to bait, well… escape options.

Given that the Pot thing is about as escapable (maybe more so) as Slash Ky corner pressure with similar rewards (actually Ky corner pressure can lead to 80% damage for one super thanks to guardbar, but hey maybe only Ogawa does that), I don’t see how you can NOT find vids of silliness in Slash. Do I really need to find a vid of Ky doing S Stun Edge pressure?

-“Huge” damage? 35% off a counter-hit is “huge” in GG? 35% for an FRC is “huge?” What game are you playing, we’re talking about Guilty Gear in this thread.
Slash Johnny can start from ZERO tension and no coin and off one counter-hit, he can not only land a coin and combo to L2 MF, he will have 25% tension to FRC into 50-75% damage + potential 1-hit setups (or he can actually do Mist loop from there for a ton of tension and end with 1-hit or coin -> Jackhound knockdown to unblockable if we’re keeping it totally tensionless). He can flat out kill some characters at the start of the round off a CH from starting position, if your execution is spot on.
-Sol CH sweep XX Gunflame up close is a whole mess of damage with air combo followup (not to mention S VV doing like 90 damage by itself).
-Slayer CH Pilebunker is good for like 30-50% damage for no meter, depending on character.
-Pot Buster was like 15-20% damage by itself in Slash, not counting followups in the corner. CH 6P leads to 25% or so easy + knockdown + gain a ton of tension. CH 2H = potential instant stun combos against some characters and just a ton of damage in general.
-Dizzy does like 10-20% off a 2K in a mixup, she pushes 30% off jump-ins/crossups for no meter, she does 30% EASY off CH 2H for no meter from far out (CH 2H XX H fish, dash 2H XX icespike), and at point-blank she either gets delayed spike + 6H JI superjump combo for 30-35%, or bubble combos for 35-60% for a bit more effort. Bubble pop against a rushing opponent is like an easy 20% damage combo to knockdown into mixup.

Ok ok, while the videos CB referenced don’t do justice to his point I think he had a valid point.

Referencing Johnny as a big damage character in Slash is pointless. He basically did the biggest damage in that game so using him as an example isn’t worth much. Also, Johnny has potentially HUGE bullshit in Slash…but what you’re describing is VERY easy for him to fuck up and it’s usually highly situational. Compared to say, ABA in AC where her combos do upwards of 250 damage with 0 to 25% tension and it would be pretty hard to screw them up, and it’s not situational at all.

Take a top tier character like Sol in Slash. On average, he actually doesn’t do that much damage per combo. His only really huge damage comes off of 2D CH and VV RC…although those aren’t exactly uncommon. But on average Sol only does about 130-170 damage a combo if he lands GOOD combos. This isn’t counting lame 2K->knockdown or simple Command throw knockdowns which do less. Sol in AC, on average, does probably 30 extra damage a combo with how sidewinder works now.

Most characters in AC are simply better offensively than they were in Slash. Exceptions being people like Ky, and Anji who were toned down. It’s just the truth.

Regardless that I disagree with CBs opinions on AC, I don’t think anyone can say with a straight face that he’s wrong about characters being amped up. I just wouldn’t use the word “broken” because the characters balance pretty nicely in reality. And while most characters got better damage and offense and whatnot, I think “die in 2 mistakes” is a bit of an exaggeration. The game just isn’t that black and white. And although most characters are more powerful, I think AC is just as balanced as Slash…actually I think AC has better balance than Slash.

That is my point, more or less, but extremes are funny to point out.

No your not. I’m saying the game is stupid/broken because everyone does stupid damage and your saying they always did. Your also exaggerating the damage done in those videos.

Jam: That combo is tricky? man, I do that all day thats actually very easy and very practical. As for the second combo look at how much life he starts off with. At the end he has 10% left. So he starts with 90 and ends with 10. She starts the burst punish combo off s.s. Its not some complicated crazy hard hitting attacks she starts off with. Just s.s into the corner combo. I can’t believe you say that whole thing with jam did 60% (15-20 for first set and 40 for second).

Potemkin: Maybe it is escapeable I dunno. But I find it difficult to escape the wake up slidehead. In my own experience it rarely am able to backdash out of it or instant jump. Now I may suck but the amount of skill to escape the trap required is much more than that to do the trap. its dumb. Also the trap gives pot 40% meter and it does 40% damage. if he has 60% meter guess what, he’s doing 2 setups and if he has 80 he’s doin 3.

Slash.

You could FD ky’s corner pressure and get out. and easily instant jump to get out.
And notice that all your high damage slash combos are off a counter hit. how many are off a counter hit in my examples? None from pot, jam, or testament. Eddie just unblockables.

Like (Redbeard) said, you know the characters do stupid damage in the game, why are you arguing against that with “Well they always did stupid damage”

Voted for AC.

because when you play Accent Core, and do beat a japanese player you turn into this

http://www.skypirate.net/cosplay/am2007/pages/070428_1766.htm

…which in retrospect…is not really a good thing XD

slash

if you’re gonna do qualifiers on slash, dont do the finals on AC, especially since AC is quite different from all the other ggs

aside from that, AC has stupid combos that do idiotic damage for less of an effort than it needed in slash. Especially eddie’s 22d unblockable and his new ed jr hs.

dont get me wrong, i like AC more than slash, but for this situation since not everybody has the chance to touch the game until it comes out on console (while others have played since it came out to arcades), slash is definately better for evo.

First part did 20%, he bursted badly and lost another ~40-45%, maybe youtube is screwing with my eyes though so it could have been more, but 10% left? More like 15-20%, allowing for bad youtube quality. 70-75% damage for 2 combos (one of them using a charge and 25% tension, the other one starting off an unprorated it punishing a terrible burst) doesn’t seem all that bad in the grand scheme of things.
Also since when are Jam players consistently starting combos with non-CH standing slashes? Punishing awful bursts like that has always been big damage for free since XX.

Then learn to reversal backdash consistently, it’s not that hard. Hell, reversal backdash nets most characters a fat combo on Pot. This is not a point of contention against AC.

First off, tapping back twice with a bit of timing is a lot of skill? If you can reversal DP/super, you can reversal backdash.
Secondly, yeah it’s dumb, but it’s not inescapable like you were claiming. GG is full of dumb, high damage setups. You played Jam in #R who did 40% off a throw and you’re complaining about this?

If Pot has 60% meter with you in the corner, of course you’re in for a world of hurt. How is this new? Slide Head being unblockable is no worse than Pot Buster being unblockable, given how you can escape both in fairly similar ways. If the Pot player had done empty jump Buster FRC into huge combo instead, would you have even batted an eye?

And Ky can easily run up 2H whenever the hell he feels like it after a Stun Edge, which drags you back to the earth (or into a VT loop if you didn’t hold FD on the way up). He can 2S to hit you as you stand up to try to jump out. He can Stun Dipper FRC if you’re FDing to get back in. Also, even if you do superjump out successfully… then what? You have to fall down on Ky, which means dealing with his 2H, 6P, or landing on a fireball that puts you back into pressure. Corner pressure isn’t just throwing fireballs till your arm gets tired.
Meanwhile you have to IB a fireball and superjump with proper timing to get out… if he just throws another Stun Edge. You can FD against poke XX Stun Edge to push him out, but FDing increases your blockstun and uses tension, and it doesn’t increase pushback against the actual fireball.
Now I’m not complaining about Ky pressure, I just deal with it 'cuz hey that’s the game for you, but I figure I’d throw this out there:
“Now I may suck but the amount of skill to escape the trap required is much more than that to do the trap. its dumb.”

I can list high damage non-CH options for a lot of characters in Slash, but if you’ve actually played Slash against good players then you should already know 'em. ABA, Johnny, Anji, Pot, I-No with a corner, Millia, Dizzy, etc. HOS combo off Gunblaze is like 30% without any semblance of fanciness; fuzzy guard into combo goes up to 50% damage, tensionless with no charge (on tall characters, you can take them pretty far across the screen for like 30% damage depending on starter + knockdown near the corner).

Because you are arguing that AC is broken when it isn’t any worse than any other GG. Characters HAVE always done stupid damage, so why complain now? Characters doing big damage off dry special moves? Remember when Jam insta-stunned some characters off CH burst rush? Robo-Ky doing like 70% off grab RC? Potemkin doing 40% on May and Axl at midscreen off Pot Buster?
I like Slash as much as the next guy who likes Slash, but saying AC sucks because lots of characters have high damage options? Again, what game have you been playing, only-combo-off-2K-Gear? MOST combos are not going to do huge damage, and I say this after playing a lot of AC. MOST combos that are landed are small knockdowns into setups (that feed into the actual big damage combos), usually off prorated moves or throws. High damage generally happens off mixups, punishes, counter-hits, hitting big moves, any time you bring meter into the equation, and anything involving guardbar… and this is nothing new. Of course there are plenty of examples where that’s not the case, but fighting games are never cut and dry.
And of course, there’s the age-old advice of “don’t get hit in the first place.” Poking/blocking/etc. is still way more important in AC than spamming a special move and hoping it hits so you can do 40% damage.

AC is plenty competitive, the better player still wins more frequently. Matchups still matter, spacing/footsies/poking are all still big, good blocking is still king. Most people haven’t seen hardcore Japanese play in person, beyond Mint/Ruu in recent years. The top Japanese players’ playstyle is VERY unforgiving, I can’t count how many rounds I lost in Tokyo because I missed one block or got hit once and ate 60% combo to mixup to dead… IN SLASH. Pretty much every game over the course of two nights, really. So forgive me if I’m not terribly worried about AC looking more broken when in reality it’s about the same at a high level. Good defense >>> dudes doing 40% combos, since anybody can learn a 40% combo.

[phoenix wright]well, this case has certainly brought light to some issues.

we’ve learned that the defendant, Accent Core, is infact not broken compared to it’s older brother, Slash.

i’ll declare my verdict now

NOT GUILTY[/phoenix wright]

OBJEcTION!!!1

^3^

sigh alright… I’m going to dumb it down for you. Just answer this question yes or no. Seriously. cause this is getting stupid. Do the characters in Accent Core GENERALLY do more damage with less meter and situation restrictions than in slash?

All I am say is that the above is true. I’ve cited videos and and other people agree with me. You can’t seem to form your lips to say yes. Everyone knows that Accent core combos do generally more damage than any other Guilty Gear game besides XX. If you don’t think so, if you think that Accent Core is just as damage happy as slash then fine. We can leave our differences there.

And about #reload jam yes she was retarded. But it was just her and eddie and slayer. In Accent Core its like 6 characters + that seem a little unbalanced. Now AGAIN, I will say it slowly. This… i…s … just…my…opinion… on… Accent… Core… Please don’t make a thread asking about a persons opinion on a game and get mad when they express it. And I’ve given you direct examples you have yet to give me any direct examples or clear combos that anji does 80% off of. Now I personally haven’t seen anji do 80% in my slash experience but I’m not doubting you. I’m sure that combo that does that damage is hard as hell too and costs more than 25% meter.

And I referenced that video because it was top japanese tournament play. the one with 9b and that eddie player. If its sooooooo easy to just wake up backdash pots slide head why’d he get hit by it 3 times in a row? seriously?

Please just answer those two questions and we can end this.

p.s. I’ll accept that her combos did a total of 75%. factoring in youtube quality. But if the first party that included the charge kick and 25% meter did only 10-15% then the rest no charge or meter did 60-65%. And alot of jams combos start from jumping hs ->s.s that situation isn’t hard to replicate even if the opponent is on the ground.

I vote Slash

Isn’t slide hit blockable that close…?

i think it is but i think he did it meaty to the point where pots body (the blockable part) would wiff and the slam (unblockable) would still hit as a meaty.

Marn about to chomp that dick right off…

Depends on the character. Johnny? Nope. Potemkin? About the same off most setups, LESS off Pot Buster without meter (ie. no combos off it without FRCing). Slide Head combos are a plus for sure, though (and pretty stupid) so I’ll give you that.
IN GENERAL, more characters have consistent high damage setups now. I think that’s a GOOD thing, you think it’s bad, so we disagree there. I’d rather a game where most characters can do a bunch of damage over a game where only a few can.

And Robo-Ky and Sol.

Note the bold. Testament, Eddie, Pot, Slayer, Jam, Baiken all have their perks… but then again, the most recent tier list (put together by Ogawa and Arisaka, apparently?) has an S tier of EIGHT characters.

I don’t pretend to read minds. People get scared and eat things over and over. People get mixed up. People out-think themselves. One ROUND of one match is hardly enough to say “why didn’t so-and-so do this?” I’m not gonna pass judgment on the player, just gonna point out that he did eat the final Slide Head standing up. Pot can punish backdashes pretty hard if he’s looking for them, too. The guy just ate a 50-60% combo back into a setup… as Eddie, with no wakeups and no easy outs. So shrug. Maybe he just froze up, maybe he thought “this time he’s going to do the safe jump-in to 5K/Buster mixup,” maybe he was having a smoke.

Honestly, you can have whatever opinion you want of the game, but AC does have a tier list that is closer together this early in the game’s life, compared to Slash which was pretty spread out early on and even at the end was a bigger spread than AC. Is the game “broken?” Sure, just like every other competitive fighter.
The real question is, “is Accent Core a tournament worthy game?” I think the answer is “yes,” and since it is the most current version of Guilty Gear (and the one that is being played in Japan and everywhere where people have it in the US… and the version that will be played by most people once they can get their hands on it), I see no GAMEPLAY reason for not having AC at Evo.

There are other considerations like the whole qualfier thing. Not my place to talk on that.

The qualifier thing is what bugs me.

People at Evo East will literally be qualifying in a game that will die out and be nothing more then a coaster for your beer five days after the tournament. I mean I can understand everyone wanting to hop onto AC, it’s plenty fun and everyone looks retarded awesome and all that shit, but running shit one way and then doing something completely different at the end just doesn’t sit well with me.

Meh.

:stuck_out_tongue: