my advice in this situation is go into practice mode, turn turbo on, and recorder Boxer doing a crouching jab at full speed… knock him down, then throw out a meaty c.lk when he wakes up and practice all your ticks. If you do it right, no one will be able to jab you out of a tornado throw off a landed c.lk or jab because you will grab them out of their jab startup. You also get a feel for your throw ranges, which helps because fierce TT does way more damage and stun and has a much shorter whiff animation so if they jump back, they can’t punish.
That right there makes Abel ten times more dangerous, because the only option they have left is to try and back dash, which is difficult because you don’t get the generous reversal timing window on back dashing, jumping out (which will give you a landed F+MK off a jab if you see it coming), or mashing a reversal… which you can anticipate and punish appropriately
You don’t always do three jabs into F+MK and if your execution is tight enough, you will likely stuff any normal counter because you are doing a practiced routine and they are attempting to mash out… so you get that counter hit you need to land standing fierce on a croucher
TT in itself is a good move but it is making people scared of the TT that makes it really useful… the longer your strings get and the more pressure you apply, the more people worry about a TT and the more likely they will mash out or try and jump and give up a combo.
Abel doesn’t win tournaments as often because IMO he’s under-represented in Japan to an extent, and in America a great deal.
sounds to beastly. he would be the perfect character imo lol
ultra through projectiles…
tick ultra setups…
recka cancels into tick ultra setups
roll ultra…(godlike!!!)
an opponet would have waaaayyy too much to deal with if he has a throw ultra imo. they propably wouldnt even make a full 720 motion…maybe two revers yoga flames
5-5 matchups between the entire cast is balanced, that may be impossible to achieve but that is TRUE balance, what part of that can’t you get your head round ?
I wasn’t asking for all 5-5 matches but heading towards that isn’t a bad idea, some improvement should be made to Abel to avoid 7-3 matchups, i don’t know what those improvements are, how big or small they need to be or how to implement them into Abels moveset but while 7-3 matches exist where possible something should be done to get closer to that 5-5 ideal.
Why not discuss ways of tweeking the character that helps in the 3-7 matches instead of dropping shit like 3-7 is winnable, we know that it’s winnable, 3 times out of 10, that’s why it’s 3-7. That means if your op plays to the same standard as you & use their entire moveset on average you will win 3 times out of 10, if you want to settle for that go right ahead.
SF4 was an incredibly balanced game that’s true no one’s disputing that but it wasn’t truly balanced if anything can be done to improve the balance in the next game i’m all for it. I’m sorry but saying a character is fine when he has 3-7 matchups & some stupidly hard 4-6 matchups (Chun Li, Rufus anyone ?) is pure bollacks.
I just want to make sure everyone understands, we know that sf4 is incredibly well balanced. I love the game. All I’m saying is that if the matchups are tightened up, it can be even better.
The reason it’s difficult to give Abel help in his 3-7 matchups is because he’ll then start beating other people 7-3. Then when you take away those things that dominate that character, he’ll end up losing to new people 3-7.
That’s why one or two 3-7 matchups is something that’s really hard to address. It’s almost just about to that point where you can’t do anything about it without breaking the balancing act for all your otherwise even matchups.
Sometimes you can assess one particular 3-7 matchup in a vacuum, but… not very often.
Also, for Abel’s bad matchups (Gief and Akuma), I suspect the solution is not to adjust Abel, but rather to adjust the other two characters.
I don’t get why you keep telling me to knock him down and have him wake up doing crouching jab. At least twice now I’ve said that that’s not the problem. We’re standing at a neutral position. I have absolutely zero issues with Abel’s mix-up against a knocked down opponent. That’s solid. The issue is when you’re both at a neutral position and Abel is trying to press a mix-up. Characters with 3f jabs that can duck under close s.hp really put a damper in your mix-up because they can just mix-up between that, jump, or backdash and beat almost all of your options. It’s pretty stupid. Unless you’ve got EX meter to blow, then you’ve got the advantage back it seems.
Granted when getting in, you can do something like c.lk, c.lp, c.mp xx MP CoD to try and catch them trying to snake it out there. It’s just extremely retarded that a wrong guess against them eats you a combo off of jabs while Abel doesn’t have that luxury.
This issue could be fixed simply by making close s.hp hit vs. all crouching characters, or maybe give him a 4f c.lp Aside from that, Abel is fine imo.
i also approve of cr.FP shud connect both hits every time but ONLY if executed point blank.
anyone else notice that dan has a funny hitbox off of a crumple stun also? you kinda have to wait an extra split second to get both hits on that as well.
Besides fixing c.HP, I would like to see the damage scaling on his CoD fixed: The entire sequence should count as one move, not three. I also think it needs to have its damage increased, like it was in one of the early betas.
I suspect he will get a throw ultra or SOME new ultra that would cover up a weakness of his. (it seems in SF4 you will have a choice between two ultras). So you can get Abel with gdlk mixups or Abel that can ultra through fireballs.
Some good ideas and thoughtful discussion in this thread. Of course, there’s also rampant stupidity, but that’s just how it goes, right? I apologize for not contributing to the former.
This. EX Falling Sky needs to be of some use. Or, just giving it more damage than the hp FS would make it a decent option. In addition to doing another FS, maybe it can leave the window open for resets. Essentially, it would be another launcher besides c.hp.
For the record, I really enjoy the Abel/Sagat fight. I think it’s pretty close to even, and Abel has the tools to really get in Sagat’s face and make him hurt. It’s a match with many interesting, always-changing dynamics.
If Abel could duck under the second hit of Akuma’s standing roundhouse, that fight would be 4-6 at worst. Stupid bit hitbox. :mad:
And Gief, well… I dunno. I think if his standing strong was a bit slower, the fight would be a bit more fair. The big problem is Abel’s wakeup game is just completely ground to dust by Zangief’s option-select nonsense. I don’t think that’s a problem you can fix without drastically altering how Abel works. I suspect Gief will still be a problem for Abel in SSF4 (unless, for some reason, Gief loses all his main ways to knock people down… which he won’t).
If I’m honest, I hope they make Abel more powerful, but make sure he’s not too easy to play as. Give him a nice learning curve that means that intermediate level players and high level players are great, but low level players will struggle. One of the only reasons I picked Abel to play as was that there were no Abel players online.