Sorry if im wrong and i mean no disrespect but i have a feeling that you dont know what a meaty attack is? Do the cr.hp early(but not too early) so that its active frames will hit your opponent waking up, they can only block or do reversals/moves with invisibility.
You need to know the timing for your opponent waking up, some chars like blanka is different (have to delay slightly longer)… im sorry but i cant explain it anymore beyond that, ive explained how the setup works, now all you have to do is practice it yourself to get the timing.
Do remember that meaty cr.hp isnt really safe and i personally wont recommend using it much against a good opponent, hit confirming with meaty cr.lp is much better imo.
edit: i wish i could help you with the vid but im in the middle of something at the moment…
You don’t necessarily need to plink for the combo but to plink the fmk > s.hp combo, you should be plinking hp and mp. You tap hp first then mp in a very quick succession. You should barely be able to hear two taps, it should sound like you’re pressing both at the same time. It works wonders.
Just because it doesn’t need to be plinked, doesn’t mean you shouldn’t plink it. If you’ve ever played on a slightly laggier set up than what you’re used to, you’ll know why.
Have you ever watched top Japanese players hands when they play ? They double tap and plink pretty much anything they can because it reduces the margin of error considerably if your execution is up to par. If you’re hitting combos consistently without plinking or double tapping, then good for you - now that your execution is reasonable, you should learn how to make it incredible.
IMO, players should be constantly finding new ways and techniques to improve - if you’re comfortable with something, it’s probably a sign that you can push even further.
Apologies if this has been asked before, but in my limited searching, I havent seen the topic discussed much:
When I watch videos of good Abels lately, they seem to opt for roll behind on opponents’ wakeup as opposed to crossup. I’m a crossup junkie, so the 1st part of this question is simply: is the roll behind that much better? Seems like you get similar mixup opportunities either way. The benefit of the roll through seems to be that you can mixup with roll not-through.
But the important part of the question is: what EXACTLY are we trying to to specifically w/ the roll behind? What I mean is, it seems in theory like roll through is really vulnerable. Wakeup DP, throw, even mashing jab… how are we trying to time it so we’re safe from these things? Does it need to cross over after theyve already gotten up(thus facing the wrong way)? Or do we want to recover a split second before they get up and meaty mixup? Again, unless we roll through and block, seems like this would just get us killed.
And yet, the good Abels wakeup roll behind constantly. Could someone explain the science of this wakeup tactic and what specifically we’re trying to accomplish? I don’t mean “do a mixup afterwards,” I mean what we’re trying to do so that we CAN do a mixup afterward. How does this work so Abel maintains control?
I main Chun, but am on a desperate hunt for a 2ndary, and if I can make sense of these roll through tactics, Abel will be way up top on my list of candidates Thanks in advance!!
Sautang: Much thanks for the reply. I guess I just gotta work on timing a bit more for that roll. Thanks for the advice as well on oki. I did not know of the lk hk trick. Dang… still so much to learn… gotta love it.
I think you should have given an example of the good abel playing and doing it. Off the top of my head the most typical reason I can see for a roll behind would be to kill the opponent’s back charge and therefore limit options. But in terms of options a jumping crossup to me would give you more. It would leave you open to several reversals, the same way that a late roll would leave you open to a throw. And the jump can also be made safe in many situations.
In some cases a roll would probably put you in a better position to follow up than a jump based on the range (e.g after an ultra maybe?). I’m just going off the top of my head here.
Again maybe if you posted a link to a video of one of those players opting to roll instead it would help a bit.
I’m at work currently. Already playin a dangerous game posting here, but I cant risk searching youtube for game videos lol But basically look up any video of Yipes’ abel and you’ll see he uses the roll behind all the time. Much more so than crossup. Rico uses it too, though I havent watched enough of him to compare the frequency.
Ambiguous roll crossups are harder to see from a defensive perspective than jump crossups. You’re much more likely to catch someone either blocking the wrong way or generally just freaking out because of how weird it can look when you do it. You can also fake them and roundhouse roll through to bait stuff, etc. It’s just a really good, hard to read mixup that can lead to huge damage and easily resets into itself. Make them guess and see how they react.
Right, this was pretty much what I’ve been asking in the above posts. What is the concrete on-screen goal so as to make this safe and good, and not get jabbed or thrown or DPed etc? Do we want to recover a split sec before theyve standed? A split second after? Ect
it took me a while to figure this out, and my timing is still kind of off. basically you have to do the roll so that you finish the roll next to them as theyre getting up. from there you can do some jabs or grabs. but you cant do this all the time or you will eat a srk(shotos) or a wheel kick(juri). like you, I usualy always go for the cross up pressure game, but the shotos just pull out the srk, which stops me from attacking. need to mix it up with the roll, which imo, is more dangerous, but works occasionaly.
the word “ambiguous” is already a super big hint/answer to your damn question.
its part of abels mixups tools, and what made you think its ever “safe”?, see you should instead learn about the rolls properly and you should be able to see or at least get a rough idea on the answer.
learn the properties of the move, startup, recovery… then you can figure out the timing, this is one of abel main tools - you can see most of the good abels apply this set play, its just as important as f.mk dash s.hp combo… in other words, of course this shit has been discuss thoroughly plenty of times before, fine if you wanna be lazy ass and not read the threads and use the search functions, but dont act like you deserve to get all the answers you wanted just because you asked. I thought by mentioning ambiguous rolls, people with half a brain would already be able to see at least “WHY” aka the “concrete on-screen goal” the shit is done.
Holt shit, what a dick. Even if I was doing exactly what you’re saying, ie. being lazy and such, that was still pretty over the top. But it seems you’re not understanding what I’m asking. If you can point me to a post that explains WHEN Abel wants to recover relative to when the opponent transitions from down to up, then I will apologize for my “laziness.” Your clue of “ambiguous” has little to do with what I’m asking, unless you’re trying to say WHEN you recover is what is supposed to be ambiguous, when no doubt any previous discussion on it is about WHERE he recovers being ambiguous. If I’m wrong, which is possible, that’s great because it means the answer exists for my reading pleasure. Either way, you were much more of an ass hole than that warranted.
Thanks in advance!!