“our real intent is to take the lesser used characters and make them an equal threat as the top tier characters.”
The top tiers are the ones with vortexes. How are you going to make a defensive heavy character like Guile with his two special moves and no gimmicks a threat to an offensive heavy character like Akuma with his nine or ten special moves and dozens of options? From what I’m seeing so far, there’s just going to be a new top eight when this “balancing” is done. Example;
Cody
Knife throw now breaks armor
Regular Zonk can now be FADC’d
The knife is a useless mechanic. Picking it up makes you lose out on F.MP, his best whiff punish, which is cr. HP, and linking specials is out of the question. Since Cody players never use the knife, this is, at best, a situational buff and it won’t be used at all. EX Zonk can be FADC’d which is a waste as its a knockdown if it lands and still punishable if blocked, even with the FADC. If the EX version can be punished even on block, whats going to be different about regular Zonk(which also scores a knockdown)? He’ll still be at negative frames and thus, still be able to be punished hard. And speaking of Zonk, its a useless special move. Extremely slow start up and recovery and has horrible priority (gets beat out by almost every strike). Since you have to hold it for two seconds, you lose out on something no matter which version you use. LP - Can’t use one of his best buttons, cr. lp and can’t tech throws. MP - Lose out on F.MP, which is another of his frame traps. HP - Lose out on his best whiff punish, cr. hp and no fake bad stone. How is this making Cody a threat to Akuma or the other top eight?
But Guile has been a staple of the game ever since it came out and his moves are synonymous with the game. I wouldn’t want anything removed from his gameplay.
…I would rather see Guile removed from the game than buffed (derped) to the point that his limited moveset can compete with characters that are not limited.
Just because Guile has 2 specials doesn’t mean he’s “limited” in any way, Sonic Boom alone is as good as 5 specials combined. Besides his normals and command normals are some of the most useful in the entire game which makes up for the lack of having “moar specials”.
Super Guile was strong and that can’t be denied even though he had the same specials back then, he just got nerfed a bit more than necessary.
Balance arguments based on comparisons of numbers of options will lead to complex characters being watered down and limited characters being complete derp. It is not the correct way to view the game.
Capcom called, and wouldn’t you know it. They agreed to personally remove the characters w00denteeth doesn’t like from the game, even if they’re well known and beloved characters. It’s clearly impossible for them to improve them to the point where they aren’t derp, so why bother? Sorry Dieminion, better pick up someone else.
…I never said anything about liking or disliking Guile. If the community is going to be obsessed with balance (I personally couldn’t care less about it myself) then the proper solution is to remove bad character designs from the game. How do you make the argument that Guile is not a bad character design if we are going to talk about balance?
There is nothing wrong with Guile if we ignore balance and view the characters as individual options for the players to choose how they would like to try to compete. The uniqueness of the characters is the best thing about SF4. It is what makes the game interesting.
I would like to read your solution to the problem.
No “gimmicks” makes him a badly designed character? By that logic shouldn’t Ryu be removed from the game too?
You act like Guile can’t already compete with “non-limited” characters. All he needs is an U2 buff and a flash kick that auto corrects properly and he’s good to go.
I think you misunderstood d3v entirely. You disagree with him then use two examples that support his statement. Vortex isn’t the only thing that makes a character top tier. E.G. You can be top tier without a vortex (Fei and Adon) or have a vortex and not be top tier (El Fuerte).
It wouldn’t matter if I had one anyway. It wouldn’t make the idea of removing existing characters from the game sound any less idiotic. All 39 characters will be returning, whether you agree with it or not.
Having a limited number of options to adjust makes him a bad character design if you are actually trying to balance the game. You can either make his options retarded or add more options (which would be a redefinition of the character). This kind of a problem is the reason why balance is really not something that players should obsess over if they want to play a game that is interesting in the way that SF4 actually succeeds at being interesting (it is the best matchup game I have ever seen).
…but auto correcting charge moves are derp. That flash kick already auto corrects more than it should. It takes away the most basic thing that you try to exploit when playing against charge characters.
…lol, then why would you disagree with mine.
…I agree that it is idiotic.
…I have no objection to that because I do not care about balance.