what the fuck is a vortex ?? ?
…a vortex is a place where people who play with honor go to die.
Zonk Knuckle: 3 active frames, 26 recovery and -8 on block.
Ignoring the first active frame because it’s the frame that makes the connection against the opponent, we have 2 + 26 which = 28. Because Cody is -8 on block it means that the zonk knuckle imposes 20 frames on hitstun against the opponent.
Now… Cody’s dash is 18 frames
When a move is FADC’d, there are an added 3 frames of animation
Cody’s dash being 18 +3 for the FADC animation makes a total of 21 frames
Cody would be in animation for 21 frames
Zonk knuckle imposes 20 frames of block stun
therefore, cody is -1
unpushiable outside of 1 frame super/ultras
Cody’s backdash is 23 frames
23-18 = 5
-1-5= -6
Cody would be -6 on zonk knuckle FADC backdash
I think cody would be far away enough to avoid most punishes.
So if these numbers are right. NO! zonk knuckle would NOT be punishable on block if he were able to FADC them.
You got your info from event hubs which is incorrect. Cody’s backdash is NOT 23F, add 3F to that. Cody is at -9F. Go ahead and do EX Zonk - FADC backdash and hold down back. Gief can hit you with his cr.MK every time. Also FADC Backdash leaves you extremely close thanks to Cody’s awful backdash distance. You are actually still in throw range against some characters.
I thought cody could not block right after a back dash because of some glitch or something.
It’s because his backdash doesn’t end until 3F after his reversal window cancel starts.
90% of characters it looks like this
Frame 27 = “Interrupt at frame” (meaning on or after this frame you can perform any action and it will automatically stop the current action.) usually this value is equal to the same setting as the “reversal cancel” window. On Cody’s backdash the interrupt at frame is 3F longer than the reversal cancel option meaning that while he can perform an attack he still can’t jump or block for 3F.
Series of images showing Cody’s backdash from the first frame it starts until the first frame you can actually move: http://imgur.com/a/2OgAN (Note the inputs. I’m holding up the entire time)
Also: Further testing of my own shows that Cody would be SOMEWHAT tough to punish… if he were to space the zonk so that it hit at the very edge of the hitbox on a standing opponent and only mid screen. Zonking an opponent in the corner = always punishable on FADC even by most characters cr.LP due to the lack of push back. Zonk hitting a crouching opponent in a reasonable level of accuracy (E.G. a position where the zonk wouldn’t just whiff if the opponent walked backwards a half step) leaves Cody well within a punishable range midscreen.
“Fighting with honor” is the scrubbiest thing I’ve ever heard. The game only knows winning or losing, you don’t get bonus points for refusing to use a character’s vortex.
He only has two special moves because he only needs two special moves. Both sonic boom and flash kick cover all he needs to play his game. Sonic Boom is not only the best fireball in the game, but because of the recovery its also a good pressure tool as well in blockstrings. His flash kick is both an anti-air (albeit one that trades a lot) and a good combo ender because of its good horizontal hitbox. Add a teaspoon of some of the best normals in the game and he’s ready to go. More options would be completely unnecessary. That’s the genius of his design. A character doesn’t necessarily need to have 5 special moves to work, and Guile proves that.
More than it should? Because shotos can do it instantly and with a much better hitbox to counter cross-ups, Guile getting an auto correcting flash kick will somehow be broken? What? And what about Balrog, he can auto correct headbutt much better than Guile and he can do it very reliably, and he’s a charge character. Is he broken because he can do that?
A charge character should only lose his back charge if someone jumps over him, not his down charge. That wouldn’t make any sense.
Turtles fight with honor.
They do.
…sounds good to me. Nobody should be complaining about Guile being underpowered in Vortex City 2014 Don’t Get Knocked Down Because It Will Confuse James Chen and Seth Killian Edition.
…all auto correct should be removed from the game.
…I am as confused about that one as you are.
…yes Balrog is obviously completely broken.
…I don’t disagree with that. The problem that I have is when someone tries to jump over Guile and the flash kick auto corrects. Whatever side Guile is facing when the flash kick is executed is the side that it should start and finish on (the same should be true for any other attack in the game).
BTW I need to point out that “auto-correcting Flash Kick” is a completely retarded term. “Auto correct” means that the game reverses the inputs from right to left, or from left to right to account for the character getting crossed up i.e. Ryu doing F,D,DF + P to do a right facing dp, but auto-correct makes him do a left facing dp when getting crossed up. Seeing as the Flash Kick has the same input for facing left and right there’s no such thing as an “auto-correcting Flash Kick.”
The first idiot to argue against the “auto-correcting Flash Kick” needs to slap himself.
…after slapping myself very hard (it auto corrected too)…I came to the realization that Guile’s flash kick should actually go straight up instead of left or right. Thank you for this epiphany.
He’s underpowered because his damage output is a little too low. If vortexes mattered that much then Fei Long and Balrog wouldn’t be such strong characters.
Maybe so, but if it’s in the game then it wouldn’t be fair if Guile is the only one who can’t do it.
I don’t know about broken. I’ll agree he’s a very strong character, maybe a little too strong. The auto-correcting headbutt has nothing to do with it though.
What’s the correct term for it?
Balrog and “too strong” belong nowhere near each other in a sentence. He is the very definition of mid tier.
If you’re asking that question then I’m not sure if you understand what “auto-correct” really means. There is no “correct term” in Guile’s case. Guile Kicks the way he’s facing on the frame you complete the move, or if it’s buffered he kicks the way he’s facing on the frame when he stands up. The “correct” in auto correct has to do with the fact that you may be inputting a move (let’s say a dp) asthough you’re standing on the left and attacking a character on the right, but instead of making nothing come out, or just a punch the computer realizes that you want to do a dp and does it in the correct direction.
Example:
Ryu is on the left in the process of waking up, but is getting crossed up by Cammy who is jumping over Ryu from right to left.:
The Ryu player hits right on his stick (in order to start his DP motion). On the next frame Ryu is still waking up, but is no longer on the left because Cammy has just jumped over him. The Ryu player not realizing he just got crossed up hits D, then D+Right and Punch, and he Dragon Punches to the left. Without auto correct the move should have never come out because the move should have been completed with D+Left. Auto Correct made the move come out because the computer allows for error when switching sides. In the Super Turbo days the correct motion in this case would’ve been R, D, D+Left, and in Super Turbo this would have resulted in Ryu eating a bigass combo because instead of doing a DP he’d just be throwing a punch.
In Guile’s case none of this matters because D, U doesn’t care what side you’re on.
This is why "Auto-correct Flash Kick"makes no fucking sense.
…yeah, I don’t know what I was thinking. It was almost like I thought that Guile players can flash kick and sonic boom while holding down back for charge instead of just straight down / straight back. That clearly isn’t happening.
lol, imagine if Guile could hold down back or even straight down and have his flash kick come out on the side opposite to where he is facing (that clearly never happens, ever, ever ,ever…because it would be auto correct, and Guile’s flash kick never, ever, ever, ever auto corrects). He would be as broken as the unstoppable force that is SF4 Balrog.
How right you are.
Interesting, I noticed the same phenomena with Makoto’s backdash as well and a few other characters I can’t remember at the top of my head. I guess the numbers were wrong afterall.
Eventhub’s data has been outdated for quite awhile now. The wiki is the most updated source:
http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Super_Street_Fighter_IV_AE/Universal_Abilities#Frame_Data
The title of this thread is misleading. The poster just wants to cry out about Cody and make some random conclusions from a generic statement he heard about balance.
This thread should be renamed to “A Whiny Rant About My Perception of Ultra Street Fighter 4”