A reflection on 10 years of marvel. - Front page article!

How High Level Marvel Works

A lot of people on these boards seem really ignorant about top level Marvel, so here’s a quick lesson. In high level Marvel, you essentially have four archtype of teams.

Rush That Shit Down (MSP, MST) - While any sort of team can technically “rush that shit down,” there’s only really a handful of teams that do it well. Usually these teams have Mags and Storms on them. With their amazing triangle jumps, washdashes, and air mobility, they can easily run fucking circles around the opponent. The third character on RTSD teams usually are pretty weak by themselves, but they more than make up for it with their amazing assist. Assists such as Tron-Y or Psylocke-A provide perfect setups for Mags and Storm to get in.

The weakness of these teams however, is that they bleed a lot. One Storm DHC into HSF, or two AHVB’s can easily make short work of Mags and Storm. These teams are like high performance sports cars, if you can’t handle their speed then bad things will happen.

Keep Away (Scrub, SSCable) - Almost the exact opposite of RTSD teams, these teams utilize characters with strong keep away abilities such as Cable and Blackheart to lock their opponent down. The assists of their choice are usually Capcom-B (probably the best keep away assist in the game, covers a lot of area and very strong), though sometimes Cyclops- B is used for a more to better set up for stuff like AHVB’s. Again, these assists are weak by themselves but they are essential to winning.

A fight between a good Scrub and MSP is a sight to behold. The Scrub player has to be on his toes, watching the angles of approach from Magneto and Storm, reacting to cross-ups and resets, being wary of that ever dangerous Psylocke assist that could come at any time. The MSP player on the other hand has to use Magnus/Storm’s speed to get through the hail of Cable beams, Sentinel drones, and Capcom assists to reach their target. But once they do get in it’s basically over for the Scrub player. If anyone wants a good example of RTSD vs Zoning, take a look at the evo2k9 mvc2 finals.

**DHC teams **(Santrax, MSS, Combofiend) - These teams don’t zone as well as team Scrub, or rush down as well as MSP. However, what they do so painfully well is utilize Mahvel’s DHC mechanic. They are called one touch kill teams because they literally only need one hit to kill you. Storm launch into lightning storm dhc to HSF…Iron Man infinite into Proton Cannon DHC to HSF…the list goes on and on.

“One hit is all it takes? Sounds pretty broken.”

Well it isn’t. As stated before, they aren’t as fast as RTSD teams so getting in on zoning teams are a lot more difficult. They also can’t zone as well as Keep Away teams so getting Magnus off them can be trouble. But in the right hands, they are quite deadly.

Trap Teams (Team Duc, Clockwork) - Although not as common as the other archtypes, these teams can still be competitive (I believe Clockwork placed at WCW2 using his patented team.) The team uses a character that can control a lot of space with multiple projectiles (Strider, Spiral), along with an assist that can provide cover and provide good chip damage (Sentinel drones, Dr. Doom rocks). Basically, by filling up the screen with as much crap as possible, they can slowly whittle away at the opponents health. If done correctly, the opponent can almost be put in permanent block stun due to the fact it can be very difficult (not to mention dangerous) to push block out of these traps.

However, like any other team this archtype has a weakness. First, they are very hard to play correctly. Mindlessly using Strider orbs and mashing on Doom Assist is not going to have anyone locked down for long. Second, while the team synergy for these type of teams is very strong, it can also be easily broken. If you lose Storm when using MSP, no problem you still have Magnus to work with. However, if you lose Strider or Doom when using Clockwork you might as well be reaching in your pocket for the next quarter to put in the machine.


So hopefully after reading this some of you will have a better understanding of how to balance Marvel’s characters. It’s not as easy as “Lets give everyone 8 way dashing!!” and “Give everyone infinites!!”

When Capcom is developing a character, they should be thinking “ok, what roles do I want this character to fill in the metagame.” For example, say I’m trying to balance Spiderman. True, I can just give him 8 way dashing, an infinite, and make him like Magneto, but why not explore other possibilities? Why not try improving him as a support character instead? Improve the invincibility of his Spider Sting assist and he can be awesome on RTSD teams, or make his projectile assist shoot multiple Web Balls so he could be valuable in Trap Teams, or maybe give him a good super to DHC into so be can be godlike on DHC teams. This is the correct way to balance Marvel. Veterans don’t want a simplied kiddy version of Marvel, nor do we want a roster of 50 Magneto clones.

tl;dr: Fuck TvC

I don’t see what’s the severe problem in having threads that articulate why people like MvC2. If they’re different from each other and well written, I don’t see the issue.

good shit on front page

Fanatiq’s post is officially my favorite post on all of SRK. So much truth, and absolutely no bias. This is the type of zero bull community article Capcom needs to read.

I come from the rhythm game community and yes, like fighting games, they only get more fun as the difficulty increases. As players progress (and FG players have come a long way), its hard to enjoy simpler games since our execution has become so refined. If Capcom knew anything about the MvC2 fanbase (and they obviously do), they would already know how far the metagame has been developed and take note of it. I can understand the challenge of making another game as big as Marvel was, but they really need to take into consideration what made it so popular with the core players, which is everything the post said. As broken and glitchy as it is, having those exploits pays off. It contributes to the hype of the game which increases its player base, which helps it grow more mainstream. Its a perfect ‘everybody wins’ scenario.

I believe they’ll include infinites, resets, and the like, but the gap between tiers won’t be NEARLY as bad.

Nah, I’m pretty sure resets and mix-ups would stay.

I would HOPE they would, anyway.

[media=youtube]6kMcrSEWelI#t=7m47s[/media]

USELESS

Nice write up Fanatiq, couldn’t agree more.

Damn this game sound like its broken!!

No way!?! :rofl:

Your post is great and all but lets get realistic, would it make sense to just copy the same damn broken characters in mvc3 with a new graphic touch, HELL NO! And let me ask you, how are you going to compensate the low tier characters in order to compete with broken mechancis like fly/unfly, tri-jump,etc? What give Ryu the ability to fly or someone like Hayato the ability to tri-jump? that crap just doesnt make any sense. Plus i doubt Sentinel and Cable are going to come back(WHICH I HOPE THEY DONT). I know all the msp whores are going to flame me for this but, im glad they nerfed the tri-jump. Yes brokenesss is what made mvc2 what it is but do we really need another broken game? no! this is mvc3 not mvc 2.5
Mvc3 so far is shaping up to be a great game and so what if it plays a bit differently from mvc2, change is a good thing.

Tri-jump has always existed. You had over a decade to get used to it. You’re just being lazy.

Why is the existence of low tier such a bad thing?

to me mvc3 is just tvc with marvel characters

I don’t have to be a marvel expert to notice that

sadly capcom screwing its hardcore fanbase once again

Scrubs don’t seem to realize that a big part of the tier gap in MvC2 was due to the sheer number of characters.

Ratholos is part of a big scrubby thread over at Capcom community and I see he has decided to troll SRK as well. What do people get out this? “I’m going to go to the heart of where people love MvC2 and tell them to embrace TvC2.”

so ten years of marvel…this is the last year of marvel 2 at evo…

thoughts, anyone?

I hope it goes out with a bang, let’s see some exciting shit

This is my first time watching Evo, but these Marvel 2 videos are beyond amazing. So much can change in like a second. Too bad I only learned about Evo this yr. Looks like I missed a lot of good matches.

I have been playing Marvel since the day COTA released. I walked into the UCLA arcade on a Saturday morning to play some Samurai Shodown and realized that inbetween the night before and this morning they have installed a new capcom fighter. There was a growd of like 50 people squeezed around the machine watching some dude destroy people with Cyclops’ optic blast. The thing took up like 3/4 of the screen.

Man, I could not get to the change machine fast enough.

I ended up spending my entire morning there.
They installed 2 more of them later that day.

I’ve been an addict ever since.

I think that MVC1 will always be first in my heart. So far, to me, no other vs. engine game is better.

After leaving college, the available time that I have for fighting games has drastically reduced year by year.

So I really hope that MVC3 will be well worth my time.

-ac
strider/chun love

Are you and that other dude from here married yet?