Goal 3a: Player’s Individual Balance Lists:
These are the balance lists for each player who has posted one in the thread. Also taken from the last few pages of the "OBJECTION! - The Phoenix Wright thread"
WHEN POSTING YOUR LIST IN THE THREAD, PLEASE SHOW THE FULL LIST; NOT JUST WHAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO ADD/SUBTRACT
MetaSkipper:
[details=Spoiler]Problem: Collecting evidence is too risky for Wright.
Solutions:
Maya Shield stays out longer and can take more damage.
Chance of bad evidence significantly reduced (removal seems a bit much).
Meat heals more (what “more” should mean is debatable).
Problem: Wright’s zoning tools aren’t terribly effective.
Solutions:
Paperwork always comes out if not interrupted in first few frames (think Dorm spells).
Increase durability on Paperwork (?)
Paperwork Storm lasts as long as Paperwork
Problem: Turnabout Mode has too much risk for too little reward
Solutions:
Give “Bridge to the Turnabout” and “Objection” armor (?)
Give Air “Bridge to the Turnabout” and Air “Objection” soft knockdown.
Make cr.:h: a low in Turnabout.
Increase Turnabout time to 30 real seconds.
Other stuffs:
Make Get’em Missile a move, not just an assist. (Consider preventing meterless unblockable set-ups.)
Reduce recovery on Maya!? to same as evidence recovery (I don’t want to have to plink, and potentially have to throw something good, to follow up after Maya 
/:h:.)[/details]
Clonedpickle:
Spoiler
- Increase Wright’s Recovery on Maya M and H so he can combo off them without assists
- Keep Missile as a assist and buff it a little OR take it out and replace it with a variation of Maya H or M and maybe switch paperwork assist with Maya shield?
- Increase durability and maybe spread on Paperwork so it covers him more in Trial mode
- Get rid of bad evidence except the meat
- Increase his walking speed a bit and increase the damage and range of his normals(except turnabout mode)
- Have Cr.H in turnabout hit low but in turn reduce Wright’s time in turnabout
samurai bebop:
Spoiler
Get rid of bad evidence, all of it. In exchange nerf the good evidence. Like have cellphone spit out two orbs instead of three.
Maya should stay on screen longer or be able to absorb more damage before leaving.
Maya shield should prevent command grabs, normal grabs should still make it through.
Missile should be a move. It should be a charge move like Hulk’s Gamma Wave or Felica’s Sand Splash. Allows PW to OTG outside of Investigation mode and without the use of Order in the Court. The OTG would require the use of an assist like Nova’s Centurion Rush to further the combo.
IReidYou
Spoiler
Invest. mode:
-Being able to discard in the air. Gives him more air game and can be used as a zoning or rushdown tool similar to arthur’s fire bottle.
Maya shield changes:
- Either takes scaled damage or up it to 300k for unscaled. Her shield not’s as strong as many people think and I’m tired of it getting pelted by an assist and then being flicked away by cr.l
-Hitstop fixes. I understand she’s a separate character and functions as an assist but damn the extra hitstop that goes on when she gets hit is annoying. What’s funny is it doesn’t even bother your opponent since they’re more than likely chaining a combo. It’s a problem for wright though since sometimes inputs don’t get recognized. Many times I tried to back dash or punish with a move and nothing comes out since I just so happened to push an important button during hitstop. Then the shield gives and my opponent hits me and gets rewarded for attacking a shield c’mon now. Modok’s shield shits on maya’s in more ways than one and he can keep summoning those things.
Trial:
-Able to use paper in the air. Super jumping’s probably one of the worst things to do in that mode and being able to use paper would at least give him some aerial defense. It would be able to auto correct him and you can use it during a regular jump for space/pressure. Just put enough recovery on landing so you can’t be brandead with it.
-Evidence use in air. Not much but at least he has some air options. Could work similar to a stall-then-fall effect like charging a spell in the air with dormmamu
-Hold a button during gavel animation to stay in trial mode. Sometimes you don’t wanna go back to investigation, especially if you’re fully stocked and want to dhc out so you can thc/dhc him back in for a bridge.
Turnabout:
-Cr.H hitting low. I mean c’mon, he has no other reliable mixups and only gets scary when he’s in your face. By the time he’s in your face turnabout’s almost over and you can probably only kill one character. Then you’re back in ass Investigation wtf.
-Paper/Evidence/Double shot evidence usable in the air. Turnabout wright can’t really do anything if the person crosses under him while he’s in the air.
-Turnabout lasting 15 seconds instead of 20. Having a midscreen overhead/low mixup to ToD is pretty powerful. With 15 seconds he should be able to kill one character after hitting with the bridge, setup the next character and if they block be able to mixup in neutral game and kill the second, then have enough meter to reaction x factor ace attorney or tag out to 2nd slot and reaction x factor super -> ace attorney to kill.
GodotsRevenge:
Spoiler
Updated list:
Across the board:
-Make c.:l: and s.:l: 1 frame startup.
Keeps PW unique with his short-range normals, but makes it a bit viable in certain situations.
-No landing lag on "Hold It"s, make air version safe on block if the landing lag doesn’t satisfy that. "Hold It!"s cancellable at any time, just enough hitstun to prevent mode change infinites.
Helps control space more, while staying safe. (Seriously, it’s so slow, yet easily punished on block)
-Mode change reduced to 2-4 frames duration. Can be done in the air, making him float for a second.
Helps air mobility, Mode changes take less dedication.
-Both collecting and presenting evidence can cancel special moves.
Plinking isn’t a nessesity, ground Paperwork into Evidence gives decent zoning capabilities.
Investigation:
-Magatama counters. Ammy-like, but slower. Cannot be cancelled into anything.
Gives PW defensive options, but prevents him from from collecting evidence, making it a bit high risk, high reward.
-Heavy Maya slide does unscaled damage.
Helps his damage output, but can’t TOD like Spencer can. Would only affect superless combos, since Steel Samurai Maya Smelting can’t come out with Maya already out.
-2 bad evidence limit, increase bad evidence by 5%, decrease meat 5%.
Decent trade off. PW players would expect bad evidence more often, but wouldn’t be scared of 10 bad evidences in a row.
Trial:
-Bridge to the Turnabout (Trial) soft knockdown.
Easier confirms, can combo off all TACs
-Presenting evidence is Air-OK, but with about 15% more start up. Floats in midair during the duration. Only be able to use twice in the air.
Keeps PW not completely helpless in the air. Helps zoning.
-Paperwork comes out even when interrupted a la Dormmamu spells.
Ground Paperwork into Evidence gives decent zoning capabilities. Allows trading.
Turnabout:
-Command normal: Down-forward :h:, hits low. About the range of Joe’s c.:h:, minus the moving.
Gives PW an actual low attack, giving him an actual mix-up game.
-Press the Witness assist has invincible start-up.
Gives PW a great assist, becoming one of two invincible assists, but isn’t broken like Pre-Patch assists.
List 1:
-Make cr L and s L 1 frame startup.
-Give super armor on “Hold It!”'s
-Investigation Magatama command grabs (Very slow start up).
-Mode change reduced to 2-4 frames duration.
-Bridge to the Turnabout (Trial) soft knockdown (For dem up and side TACs).
-Evidence is Air-OK
-Evidence can cancel special moves.
-Maya shield scaled.
-Heavy Maya slide does unscaled damage.
Obviously not all these should be used, maybe only six of them or so.
ROFLion:
Spoiler
- Give him back the invincible assists he was clearly designed around
- Lower % of bad evidence
Eight_SixtyFour:
Spoiler
I don’t think his zoning or his unblockable setups are sub-par, but that timer really hinders his effectiveness. Level 4/5 Frank gets by despite having no good lows (slide is debatable but Roundhouse h is a combo extender) and decent zoning tools, but he has all the time in the world to get in the opponent’s face. He also has good ground movement and the ability to cross up much more effectively than Wright. So as far as Turnabout Wright (TW) changes go, I’d say this:
- Continuing from the Trial mode suggestions made by others to make evidence air ok, make it apply to Turnabout mode as well. Also applies to Paperwork Storm.
- Make TW permanent.
- Give TW some kind of roll-like move, an air dash forward/backward or a teleport. Wright’s mobility isn’t good, even in this mode (better than in Investigation or Trial Mode, but still bad). Having some kind of movement option (I’d prefer an air dash tbh) helps him control the neutral game better.
- I’m not sure what to do about his Level 3. I really don’t want to do all that work again after getting to Turnabout mode, but I can’t think of a good balance change for it. So I’ll leave it.
Suggestions for his other modes:
Investigation Mode:
-Increase horizontal range on his normals, especially his crouching l. I’d like it if crouching l was mashable, but I don’t think it’s needed.
-Modify the bad evidence so that they actually do something (but make them sub par to the good evidence).
-Maya shield should just negate command grabs. And have increased durability.
-I’d like to be able to cancel directly into evidence from Maya without having to plink. If you still need to plink, make the timing a bit more lenient.
-Make it so that you are guaranteed to get the Cellphone as a good piece of evidence. I originally thought of making both the Cellphone and the Vase (which are imo his two best pieces of evidence) guaranteed, but that might be too much.
Trial Mode:
- Air ok evidence and paperwork.
- Reduce startup of Cellphone.
- Make it so that you can direct where you put the document if you get it.
- Ability to cancel specials into evidence.
- Make his meter building in Trial mode much better.
As far as assists go, I guess reducing the start up time for Get 'Em Missile would be a good start.
Hypers are fine as they are.
Thunderfang747:
Spoiler
Investigation:
1.Can have a maximum of one piece of bad evidence at a time, the max is currently two.
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After getting two bad pieces of evidence, the rest are guaranteed to be good or meat. (EG you throw away the bad evidence and get another)
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Meat can only be found if Wright has recoverable (red) health.
Reason: I am not going to add a bunch of changes to Investigation mode. It is designed to be a mode with very limited options because the end goal (turnabout) is supposed to be very strong. I was tempted to add Maya being command grab immune, but I feel as though grabs in general are supposed to be Wright’s main weakness similar to Haggar being weak to zoning. With that said, I feel like changes need to be made to the evidence. Too many times I find myself getting two pieces of bad evidence and the third slot becomes meat. With the changes I have setup above, Wright is almost guaranteed to get good evidence fairly quickly, Meat will always be useful, if you do get bad evidence you know the rest of your searches will likely get you at least one projectile, and there is a light at the end of the tunnel knowing that if you get one more piece of bad evidence the rest are guaranteed good unlike now where it is very possible (albeit extremely unlikely) to never find good evidence.
Trial:
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Evidence present/Paperwork Air OK, Make them stall his fall like Haggar whiffed command grab and have it auto-correct him. Allow two air actions.
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Slightly better hitboxes on normals.
Reason: Again, I am afraid to overbuff this mode due to Turnabout. That said, unlike Investigation, this is a mode that is supposed to make him less of a gimmick and more of an actual character. At the moment, Wright lacks any kind of aerial presence in any of his three modes. In Marvel, where many top tier threats spend all day zoning air to ground and throws are a single frame, lacking the ability to simply change the momentum of your jump arc and auto-correct is unacceptable imo. This is something I feel should also be changed in Ghost Rider and Iron Fist (although I don’t play them and this isn’t the thread for that.) If his projectiles become air usable, he will have a better chance of putting a little bit of pressure on aerial opponents and, like I said previously in another thread, would give presenting bad evidence/nothing a use as he could simply use it to stop moving and turnaround. This would also help fight against air grab attempts as if he was to auto-correct, he would be facing his opponent if he super-jumped over them and be able to j. S (sneeze) on the way down. With the hitboxes on his normals, again Trial mode is supposed to be closer to a standard character. That said, the hitboxes should not be improved a lot. Wright has disjointed hitboxes (paper, book, etc.) and he should not be having normals comparable to sword normals outside of turnabout lol.
Turnabout: I have a few ideas here and want to suggest two possible changes.
Option 1:
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Make cr. H a low
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Two new air command normals, air Forward H (Finger in a straight line similar to cr. H) and air Up H (Finger diagonally up similar to st. H)
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Time limit reduction from 20 seconds to 15 seconds.
Reason: As we all know, turnabout has a timer. While this is understandable thanks to his absolutely dominating defensive options and damage output, it creates my least favorite thing about the character. He is forced to rush down in this mode and he lacks a strong way of doing so. He currently lacks anything resembling a mixup game because he has no left-rights at all. While he does have a fantastic overhead, his only low is his cr. L which is probably the shortest range normal in the game. This can be remedied with his Maya hyper unblockable. With Turnabout PW however, a mode designed to be one of if not the most dominating characters in the game, he shouldn’t need to constantly force characters to block hypers while standing to open up his opponents especially on a tight time limit that reverts him back to the worst character in the game. If his cr. H was a low he would have a much more threatening high-low mixup game which is sorely needed. To make matter worse however, certain characters are able to easily get out of his range with their superior air mobility (super jump, air dash up, fly) and the only way Wright can attack them at all is if he is lucky enough to acquire the cell phone evidence or by burning his level 3 Hyper. The new air command normals would give him a way to chase down opponents p-link air dashing around the screen (Forward H) and a way to reach those that air dashed out of his range (Up H.) Between his new high-low mixup, devastating chase-down game, and air projectiles (mentioned in trial changes) the 20 seconds we currently have would probably be a bit too much. I shortened it by five seconds to accommodate this.
Option 2:
- No real change to turnabout, however if time runs out he keeps his evidence when he reverts to investigation. Evidence only disappears if he uses his Level-3 Ace Attorney.
Reason: With this change, I am taking a different approach. Like I said before his defensive options are absolutely dominating. This is because of his huge disjointed normals that convert into a kill, fast high durability projectiles, invincible super in Order in the Court, nearly all of his moves are advantageous on block, and unblockable with the help of Maya. Because of the time limit that threatens him going back to square one however he is quickly pressured into going on the offensive, his lacking area, if the opponent decides to fly or even activate X-factor to simply avoid chip damage. While asking for infinite turnabout is a bit too much, I believe that keeping his evidence can be a simple solution. Because he would only need to mode change and land another objection when time runs out, the threat of starting over would be gone. This would allow Wright to play defensively more freely and make activating x-factor for his opponent a larger risk as he could easily get turnabout a second time. This would also make more sense canonically as there is never a moment in Ace Attorney where Wright randomly loses his evidence and goes back to investigating mid-trial lol.
Generic Operator:
Spoiler
-Allow you to start in trial mode when the match is counting down.
-Faster startup on projectiles or air-ok evidence and papers.
-No bad evidence or permanent turnabout mode till death or level 3.
-Slip up now causes a ground bounce instead of hard knockdown.
-Better horizontal range on normals.
-Maya has to walk a minimum range instead of walking back to the corner before being available again.
-No hard knockdown for Wright on judge hyper in turnabout.
-Control where to place folder orbs. (It’s the most useless evidence atm, however its a good frametrap since its plus on block.)
Mr Mew Mew:
Spoiler
-Make his overhead be considered an air move, making him susceptible to air throws but not ground throws. It’ll help make his overhead an actual threat and complete a cycle of low/throw/high when someone gets too close to the maya shield.
-Remove extended trip-guard on air OBJECTION. Why is this a thing?
-Let me cancel grounded OBJECTIONs at any point in the animation.
-Make ace attorney never hits assists.
-Zero can charge a buster before the round starts, Chun can charge her super spinning bird kick, can Vergil and Viper charge theirs? Anyway, let me pick up evidence please. Let me discard it too if you’re feeling nice, I’d love start of match meaties!
-Make the maya super’s last low hit a low to the ground spinning hard knockdown. It’d make his unblockable setups a bit more reliable.
-Increase the durability and decrease startup of the folder evidence. Also make its initial hitbox around Wright’s hand larger. I’d love being able to use this to ‘parry’ beams reliably.
-Make the papers linger a little bit longer when they’re not touching the opponent. Because why not?
-No red health. No meat.
I don’t want Wright to be too strong, I like him as he is now. If getting to turnabout mode is too easy, I’ll feel bad about rubbing it in my friend’s faces when I land the level
UglyWhen:
Spoiler
My thoughts and opinions on some suggested buffs in order significance (tldr below):
Spoiler
No bad evidence:
As much as we all hate bad evidence it does exist and it does contribute to Wrights zoning and meta game. I understand the character has issues gathering a good set consistently in a match, but removing bad evidence all together would take away from Wright’s design (but it would make him a lot more viable). There are plenty of ways to improve Wright’s investigation neutral game instead. If it were me I would improve the frames for searching and/or make his hitbox smaller. Other buffs like making searching/discarding/presenting evidence airok would give him some much needed options. I also liked the idea of holding on to some or all of his evidence if turnabout timed out.
Turnabout Cr. H hits low:
In his current state this buff would give Wright an airtight high low game that is very dangerous to use push guard against. Think like vergil’s airtight left right game except worse. The problem is turnabout Wright is pressured into offense due to the time limit, and he has trouble opening people up without a decent low, but the size and hitstun of his fingers would have to be nerfed to account for this buff. I liked the idea of having a separate command normal finger (df. H) that is smaller, hits low, and is not jump cancelable. Otg would be a nice bonus.
Evidence and Paperwork airok:
One of my biggest complaints about Wright is his complete lack of air options (second only to iron fist). Very few of his air attacks can cross up and he can’t even turn around in the air leaving him open to grabs every time he superjumps. Allowing him to use some or all of his zoning tools in the air would help his keep away game significantly even if it doesn’t add to his mobility. Also being able to search and discard evidence in the air would help his investigation game a ton too, but mostly I just want to see evidence fall from the sky xD
Plinking is dumb:
I’ve been around the block a few times with this tech and have tried to discover and share as much as I could, but it seems that people still have a lot of issues using it in a match. I’ve come to the conclusion that plinking is generally considered a high risk low reward tactic that can easily get u killed if ur execution slips even a little, and I know some of the more well known Wrights play on pad which just makes matters worse. So here’s a hypothetical buff: what if calling Maya was fully special cancelable. Plinking would still be relevant being the fastest way to call Maya and gather evidence, and the timing would be more lenient. It would also open up the option of switching to trial mode mid combo, and make transitioning from searching in investigation mode to zoning in trial mode a lot more seamless. Wright doesn’t have too many options when calling Maya anyway and he would still be forced to go through 20-30 frames of animation to call her, but this would be a huge buff to his metagame and his defensive options.
Where’s my Magatama?:
Alright maybe it’s just me, but it does bug me that this isn’t in the game. Might be a long shot, but he could just “present” the magatama as an animation and it could act as a counter or a command grab that puts the opponent in a standing dizzy. The frames don’t have to be very good, but as it stands Wright’s best ground options are his grabs which have very situational conversions. Without Maya or an otg assist Wright can’t get very much at all off of midscreen throws and I feel he needs a more rewarding option when dealing persistent rushdown.
TLDR:
-Improve frames and/or hitbox on searching and discarding evidence
or make searching and discarding airok
-Make turnabout cr. H hit low and nerf size and hitstun of fingers
or command normal finger df. H is smaller, hits low, is not jump cancelable, and can otg
-Evidence and/or paperwork airok
-Maya is fully special cancelable
-Magatama command grab or counter leads to full dizzy
Any of the above changes would be considered significant and any one of them would really make my day.
Minor gripes:
- Ace attorney hyper shouldn’t hit assists or have a height restriction
- Landing recovery frames on hold it and objection should be removed
- Uncancelable frames on grounded hold it and objection should be removed
- Folder evidence should act more like MODOK’s floating bomb
- Any buff to his mobility would be appreciated
Evangelyne
Spoiler
As for the changes that I’d make
-No bad Evidence(You could even make the evidence have a set thing like teddies items in P4A)
-Hit Boxes on investigation and trial are slightly larger.
-Maya Shield either absorbs 300k or all damage to it is unscaled.
-Evidence Toss is air Ok
Trial
-Papers and evidence are air Ok
-Maya can be used in this mode with a reverse SRK motion
-Make document have a set trajectory instead of going everywhere
-Be able to special cancel objection/hold it on block.
Turnabout
-Cr.H hits low
-Evidence and papers are air OK
-Maya can be used in this mode with a reverse SRK motion
Assist Change
-Give the break the witness assist ko like gold armor on it, where wright still takes damage but he can walk thru stuff.
-Change the papers assist to either maya shield or H maya slide
Goal 3b: Generally Agreed Upon Changes:
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Fix not appearing Maya glitch
Discussed here: A lawyer is someone who smiles no matter how bad it gets - The Phoenix Wright Feedback Thread
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Fixing Bad Evidence (8/12 change lists):
Ideas on how to fix bad evidence are varied:
-Chances of getting bad evidence lowered (MetaSkipper, ROFLion)
-Get rid of bad evidence except for meat (Clonedpickle)
-Get rid of bad evidence, nerf good evidence (samurai bebop)
-Get rid of bad evidence (Evangelyne)
-Have a maximum of 2 bad evidence in a match, higher chance of bad evidence (GodotsRevenge)
-Bad evidence has a use (Eight_SixtyFour)
-Have a maximum of 2 bad evidence in a match, only 1 bad evidence at a time. Meat can only be found if Wright has recoverable (red) health. (Thunderfang747)
-No bad evidence or permanent turnabout mode till death or level 3. (Generic Operator)
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Have another low in Turnabout Mode (7/12 change lists):
-Make c.:h: hit low (Metaskipper, IReidYou, Thunderfang747, Evangelyne)
-Make c.:h: hit low, lower Turnabout Mode time (Clonedpickle)
-Make a new low with less range than c.:h: (Uglywhen, GodotsRevenge)
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More air attacks (7/12 change lists):
-Discarding and presenting evidence Air-OK. Paperwork Air-OK (IReidYou, Eight_SixtyFour, Evangelyne)
-Presenting evidence is Air-OK, mode change Air-OK (GodotsRevenge)
-Presenting evidence and paperwork Air-OK, Two new air command normals, air Forward :h: (Finger in a straight line similar to cr. :h:) and air Up :h: (Finger diagonally up similar to st. :h:) (Thunderfang747)
-Faster startup on projectiles or air-ok evidence and papers. (Generic Operator)
-Presenting Evidence and/or paperwork Air-OK (UglyWhen)
More to be added later.
/:h:.)[/details]