Wow…I’ll be careful next time about being sarcastic around you. Don’t wanna die in a fire. :lol:
You are right, but after all, this is a new age.
Back in the 90’s, if Capcom wanted to add new stuff to SF2, they had to come out with a new version, you also have to consider that SF2 is pretty much the game that started all of the fighting game craze [There were before, but nothing like SF2]. Capcom pretty much invented many of the things we see in modern fighting games. Heck, It’s not a secret that people play CE/ssf2t even today [Myself included]
Sure money was involved in releasing new versions, but they were also released because Capcom wanted to improve the game, Just check out SF2 and SSF2T. Can someone not see the difference?
But today? Capcom knows their stuff. They already established a great fighting system. [That works in other games, Capcom or not]. But what’s the main difference? Online.
The PC had it years ago, but the consoles haven’t. You can’t release an update to a PC game but make people with consoles buy a new version. But today, with PSN/XBL and online you can release patches including balance fixes, new characters/stages/movies and other tweaks and features. Capcom dosen’t have to release a totally new version for the same game [As retail] if they can easily put it on sale on DLC. It also shortens alot of wait time because Capcom can release a patch once in a while and dosen’t have to “gather enough material” for a new retail version.
The only problem is the arcades which will need update as well, but I’m pretty sure Capcom can solve it as well [iirc the new arcade games run on discs?]
I personally think Capcom indeed made SF IV as a “completed rushed game” as I like to call it. It’s a complete game, but with more to improve and put. I believe Capcom did it for people to expect the new version/patch. [Don’t get me wrong, I think SF IV is a great game]. I also believe there weren’t many new moves for the oldschool characters because Capcom wanted to check how they will work with the new fighting system. After some time in tourneys Capcom can see how are they doing and add new stuff to each character.
Anyways, I agree with you that SF Dash shouldn’t be released too soon, but Capcom can still keep the interest if they’ll release patches once in a while until the new version comes out/
Maybe not a separate series, but a separate play mode might work.
Seriously, folks, the average gamer CANNOT throw a fireball consistently. It’s a concept that no other genre has to deal with. It’s hard to do.
A separate “shortcut” mode would do wonders for casuals. It could even be a strategic element. For example, they could allow 3 shortcut buttons, and you can choose which specials/ultras/supers you’d like to assign to which buttons (and, charge moves would still require you to hold the button and release it).
This way, it would still encourage people to try and learn how to do specials the real way (since you can’t assign ALL your specials to shortcut buttons, there would be incentive to learn the real way and have access to ALL your moves at once.)
OF COURSE, OF COURSE, OF COURSE this mode would be separate from the real game (via an option during online/versus games). It’s only an alternative for casuals turned off by the difficult execution barrier.
Tourneys and whatnot would still be regular mode.
even if they did release Dash 9/10 it’s gonna be in Japan first and it’ll take a year for us to get so imagine if that did happen next year, like, February…
how old would the first version of SF4 be by then?
i think what jack is trying to say is that SF4 is trying to be casual friendly but alot of these motions and frame links are easy to understand…since most of us played sf2 back in the old days we understand…
but to someone who’s never played a fighting game can have a seriously hard time understanding the casualness of the combos and moves and links… When alot of the trial combos takes trial and error and some need to be done in corners or spaced…how is it casual friendly when it doesnt explain any of this? do they expect every casual player to go to srk.com or youtube for them? that’s not the definition of casual and the game probably could of done a better job of explaining it for the newbs… Real newbs to the genre…
Because lets face it… The Hardcore need the casuals…because they are by masses make the sales…and when there’s sales…there’s more possibilities for sequels.
I just think Capcom dropped the ball on a lot of SF4…some things are left ambiguous and lots of things are easy as hell…turtling… running…sagat…ahaha…jk but people still complain about it and they have a point… people shouldnt be rewarded for running away and blocking and have decent teching abilities and just attacking when they feel like it…there should of been a guard break regardless if Capcom believes it may be a turnoff to the casual to see more meters on screen.
The weaker characters…should have more combo linent BnB’s and need to have more frame link advantage and do away with the stricter ones… Ryu, Rog, Chun have some pretty easy links and are pretty tournament viable…than say Guile…who’s BnB is almost like Rog’s BnB but for some reason its more difficult to do…especially online… i don’t main guile but i can get away with his BNB sometimes…but a newb surely wont be able to…and will stick to the sonic boom and flash kick trap and run away…all game…
Characters like Sakura even have badass combos the more complex ones should add extra frame advantage such as her SRK FADC…can be linked but is difficult online also.
Even tho i have no intention to play the low tier characters but their weakness are so apparent that any fireball-dragonpunch fighter has the clear advantage…and its no wonder that a large consensus are likely to go with the safety zone…Sagat, Akuma, Ryu… over Sakura, Gen, Rose…
I’d like to see them more viable in the tournament scene and in the casual scene…This game needs both scenes to keep making more street fighters.
Hell BB got it right with the casual approach by introducing the free tutorial disc… Alot of SF scrubs were actually seemingly impressive in that game…and the DVD helps alot to casuals and to the hardcore.
and alot of people to my knowledge sold their copies because they were turned off by some of the balanced issues and lack of Third Strike and Fatal Fury characters…they sold their copy and went to BB.
add balancing issues to not make shotos at a clear advantage over the low tier crowd that have no fireball support…
Add third strike and fatal fury*edit (FINAL FIGHT i mean) people
Add a guard break to punish turtles since overhead isnt enough…since not all characters have good ones or any at all… or grabbing isn’t a good solution to a turtle who knows how to tech…gaurd break is needed.
And make some more ultras as easy to connect as Rog, Ryu, Rufus, Sagat with the crappier characters… Vega, Guile. etc.
Then i can expect more people to come back to sf who sold their copies waiting for the more balance and perfect sf with their favorites actually making a come back.
^^ what the hell fatal fury got to do with SF?
Yep, but I guess people will still be interested when they’ll hear about SF Dash once it comes out, they’ll still expect it
And for a “casual system”. I don’t think there’s a need for one [Normal trials are good for learning imo], but even if so… Capcom should use the “Easy” system from MvC
Oops i meant Final Fight.
if they plan on upgrading street fighter 4, they should really do something like make it a digital update, perhaps even for free, and re-release the hard copy with all updates applied. that would at least take care of the “forced to upgrade” thing, and wouldnt split the community… they could even make some additional DLC that they can sell (if they add new characters, sell the alt costumes separately).
and ill 2nd that they need to add a quarter line lobby, tweak netcode, as well as allow any replay to be saved.
Yeah I think one of the main issues keeping people from understanding how easy SFIV is to simply “play” is the fact that the training modes and tutorials for SF to this day are very underwhelming. People can’t learn rudimentary, basic aspects to playing SF unless they go on SRK and spend time looking through pages and pages of info where people are asking in character specific threads how to deal with people jumping in or what to do against people who keep throwing them. It doesn’t need to be like that but, I guess Capcom wants to ensure that the basics of SF are always an anomaly. :shake:
The trial modes did nothing more but make scrubs assume that the only way to play SF seriously is to learn 1 frame link combos and be able to pull them off all the time. They think if you can’t do that you’ll never amount to anything in SFIV. That’s obviously not the case after watching a lot of high level SFIV play and a lot of matches are won based on thought out strategies revolving the basics of SF. Alex Valle is a prime example of this. This guy looks like he’s getting arthritis dropping shoryu, FADC Ultra multiple times in his top 8 footage. On top of that after connecting a focus attack that hits and crumples he pretty much eliminates any 1 frame Daigo combos from his arsenal (pretty much just going for f+HP to HP shoryu on most occasions). Even then he still makes 2nd place at WCW due to his great understanding of spacing and usage of attacks and the properties/hit boxes of those attacks. If SFIV had more than 60 percent of its strategy revolved around twitch reflexes like FPS’s did Valle would have retired years ago. Luckily SF is more like a fast paced version of chess and there’s many more aspects to the game that allow people going into their later years be able to perform just as well or better than the new kids on the block.
I know there’s plenty of kids who went out and bought an SE/TE stick with all of the hype regarding SFIV and now have either sold it off/returned it or went back to the pad because they couldn’t get the hang of a stick. There’s a certain way you’re supposed to hold and move a Sanwa stick to get the best results out of it and most players tend to over do the motions on a Sanwa stick and that’s why things don’t come out. Sanwa sticks are like using sensitive mouses and you don’t need much arm or even wrist movement to get the motions. The square gate that feels restrictive for newer stick users I’m sure turns newer users off but what they are never taught to understand is that the gate is there to keep your motions honest and exact and not throwing your arm all over it like you would with an American stick. It’s just if people aren’t taught those things…high level SF play again becomes an anomaly.
I’m really against any sort of “easy mode” in the next SF. I can see them implementing this for controller users, but an arcade stick is a superior device for fighting games. It’s the same reason why console shooters have auto-aim but PC shooters don’t, mouse/keyboard is a superior input device and it is unneeded. BlazBlue had this feature and I was never really a fan of it. If you could map a fireball or SRK to one button it would be pretty cheezy. I understand the concept of “training wheels” but there are going to be the people that never take off those wheels, you know?
SF4 got people to buy arcade sticks that were too young to really play seriously during the big arcade craze (seriously, I was 10 when third strike came out 10 years ago!). I’ve never played on a stick before SF4, but after using one its easy to see the game was designed for the stick. Its tricky learning a new input device for a game but its ultimately a rewarding experience.
I still have no idea why Madcatz made as few sticks as they did: the things are in such high demand right now. My friend even had trouble getting his Hori stick because it was sold out everywhere. Basically what I’m trying to say is that Capcom should encourage people to play the game with arcade sticks, the way its meant to be played. Capcom should be encouraging people to go out and drop $140 on TEs because it means more profit for the company.
I dunno, I’m just thinking from a business standpoint, the arcade sticks weren’t really advertised as well as they could of been. I had no idea they existed before a friend told me about them.
Hopefully that made some sense.
e: What the next SF really needs is a tutorial mode for each character. Not this challenge crap where a new player is told “Ok do this combo and don’t fuck it up.” Baby steps people!
All Dash needs is: 1.Balancing
2.More characters. (I say first two for all fighters)
3.All ultras do less damage (I’m tired of 50% life gone on one ultra, rediculous)
4.No shortcuts.
5.No auto direction fixing or whatever it’s called.
6.Make some combos easier. (1 frame links, certain FADC’s)
Oh yeah, and more alternate costumes (free), final boss easier, no anime arcade mode, better online lobby system, better music, and I like the character tutorial idea.
Lobbies, lobbies for the love of beans LOBBIES.
I hate seeing a handful of friends online and having to pick one friend to play with over and over. I should be able to start a room, invite 5ish or so friends and have a round robin system that the next person in line plays the winner.
Also, if I happen to just be playing with one friend over and over, please let me just hit replay and not have to go back out to the lobby, repick my character and load the level EACH fight… that shit is balls.
I’m totally fine with 1 frame links, I like a challenge, but I agree with your other points. Rog has the perfect ultra IMO. You can risk being blocked if try to throw it out for full damage but if you want to guarantee it will land and juggle from a headbutt, you get a reduced damage ultra.
Finally, when characters like Ryu, Sagat and Rufus have multiple ways to juggle the ultra but a character like Guile, who not only has a difficult execution ultra but can only juggle from a super is straight stupid.
lmfao
Demo recording, GPPO netcode.
If it doesn’t have those two things Capcom might as well not even bother with an online mode.
IMO most people are just looking for “make my character better/make the characters I don’t like worse”. Reading through any wishlist thread, half the suggestions would make the character the most broken thing ever.
And then there are the engine tweaks to make the SFIV mechanics more like the previous games, which is kind of funny because the biggest complaint about SFIV before it came out was that it was just rehashing SFII.
Re-balance SFIV…right. Because SFIV is so imbalanced compared to…which Capcom game, exactly?
I’m looking for mechanic tweaks
Never said it was imbalanced…don’t think it is, but I do think it could use some engine tweaks even if it does make it play more like older versions. IDK I think the game would be served better if they refined it some rather than waiting 5 years or longer for a proper sequel.
If those saying Dash would be in the form of a dl patch are right, I don’t see it really splintering the playerbase much, if at all. It isn’t like it is going to be a $60 download. Even if it is $20…anyone unwilling to pay that to get new characters, backgrounds, and whatever tweaks they make to the engine/online code probably isn’t looking forward to SFV. And like I said before it is pretty much a guaranteed profit for Capcom to do so. Would be dumb to leave the money on the table.
edit: Also was thinking…I seriously doubt that Dash would be released at $60 if it ends up getting a retail release. The game has already been on sale for $20…I don’t see how anyone at the company would think that the “minor” changes Dash would warrant $60. If it is retail hopefully it is $39/$49.
most people dont know the mechanics of the game. They want shit like nonpunishable blanka ball, balrog headbutt into insta grab, and one of the worse is in the Vega forums, unblock-able ultra 
All the next game really needs is to take out stuff like the infinites, fix hit boxes where moves dont whiff when they obvously shouldnt (Vega’s claw), and take out perma locks (Bison), and make Ultra’s more viable for characters.