it’s the timing of the j.lk that makes it a mixup, as you rise you have a couple frames to tell if it crosses up,hits high or hits low, and it’s usually free, thus making it Sagats best mixup,usually this is from a tiger uppercut with a run groove, otherwise his mixup is stale
All i gotta say is that if it was such a good mixup, I woulda seen it by now in the 10’s of top-level cvs2 matches I’ve watched from the US and Japan. And I haven’t. Point out vids that display this incredible “frame specific” mixup and I’ll bow out.
(the)geesE: sagat’s j.short itself is not a mixup. it’s what you can vary it with. i really didn’t want to type out more than i needed, but it seems like you dont’ understand at all.
from the setup kcxj posted:
you can do stuff such as
1)regular jump/super jump to vary the crossup
2)regular/super empty jump low short
3)early j.short, land throw
4)deep j.short, combo
if they safe fall, that means they are willing to take the risk to eat super or normal xx super.
if they delay getup, they avoid the mixup, but a mixup is a mixup. they are still knocked down, so it’s not like they did much to avoid the mixup.
as for the vega/blanka stuff, it’s good, but i dont’ see it happen as often as the sagat mixup, plus it’s not like it’s hard to avoid that mixup anyways. if they get off the ground, then DP, at worst you’ll eat a small jump roundhouse. mixup failed…but the risk/reward factor is different for this mixup so i dont’ really want to get into much detail on comparing sagat vs blanka/vega as well.
i’m still slightly confused as to what you’re trying to get at specifically. you just randomly seem to point out that it’s not hard to see a superjump short coming. and you see to have something against kcxj as well.
so tell us now…what’s a more viable way to do damage than sagat’s super jump short after a fierce DP.
Ino did it in a Japanese 5 on 5. He did empty jump crossup into tiger raid. But I guess you would have simply held db unless you saw a lk come out and safely blocked it lol. Maybe you just need better comp and then you’ll agree that it’s not so easy to block correctly.
I cleaned the sand out of his vagina for him, but I guess he doesn’t appreciate it. 
I like best how Buk threatened to ban us all because of the dumb stuff in the tier thread, but retarded troll posts like these are fine though. Anyway, no point replying and trying to explain any further. It doesn’t matter what you say, trolls get their rocks off whenever people get baited into replying. Rather than waste multiple pages arguing over something pointless, just let them do whatever they want I say.
umm quite a difference…that’s just a ghetto baitout tactic, it’s not a “omg so hard to tell which way to block” tactic. He prolly did Tiger Raid cause it’s safe on block and beats most alpha counters. What did u expect him to do? Tiger Genocide? And umm yeah, just to clarify. Empty jumpin super is one of the oldest, most ghetto, and most reliable tricks in SF. You can’t compare it to kcffxjx’s retarded mixup.
plz stop posting flamebaits.
1)kcxj’s mixup is actually a universal one that’s been around for a while, so yes you can compare it to empty jump tiger raid.
2)ino doesn’t do tiger raid for the safety reason, cuz it’s not safe
3)the only reason why we’re discussing this is because you pointed out that we’re too stupid to avoid cross up j.short. however you failed to realize that if the players you play CAN blcok the j.short correctly, there’s still two options afterwards, so please, pay more attention to the point of his post rather than just bits and pieces of it.
4)just to clarify this to you as well, this looks similar to what happened to the ongoing tier thread, so try not to refer to people as douche bags, or purposely screw up their name or even call an something retarded. it’s flamebait and we dont’ need any more of it.
kcxj’s mixup IS an empty jump mixup… you either have to block a crossup j.short (which isn’t that hard, yes) or block a low short. It’s not some “frame specific” mixup or anything. The j.short doesn’t even have to crossup for it to be the same exact mixup of hit them high into combo, or land and hit them low into combo. The crossup factor just makes it harder to DP reliably.
Just 'cuz kcxj doesn’t go by some random Engrish name or doesn’t live in Japan doesn’t mean that mixup doesn’t work. It’s a thing that you can’t block on auto-pilot or even on reaction if it’s done correctly (not that hard).
Anyhow, as to the original post, a bunch of those can be DP’d so they’re not true 50/50s.
tiger raid is safe. If by unsafe u mean it can be reversal blah blah blah’ed when the moon is out and with quadruple reversal anti-clitoris timing, then yeah i guess so. But by all reasitc measurement its safe. And so is 1-hit bison knee press.
is this conversation for real?
sagats jumping short/no short/crossup/no cross up (which basically leads into the realm of mixups) can be very deceiving Geese. If people often fall for this Sagat setup…and trust me, even the best do…then they are getting mixep up.
this isn’t even debatable
oh and by the way, wheter the timing is strict or not, u without realizing, aggreed that tiger raid is not safe:
even if it needs, as u so eloquently said, a quadruple reversal anti-clitoris timing, it still qualifies as UNSAFE, cause in the end u can still get hit afterwards…k. thx
1-hit bison knee press is very unsafe…people still do that? You’d think that the elite players that never get crossed up or fooled by empty jumps would counter some scrub shit like that…tiger raid is actually pretty safe unless they are short but knee press? Seriously?
Time for a subject change.
(THE) Geese, disagreeing with people is fine, adding random insults to all your posts is not. That’s your warning.
The fuhrer has spoken.
HEIL FUHRER!
ahem
Raiden’s 50/50s are really good. For a jump-in, wakeup or any 360 grab situation, if they sit there, you can throw them. If they see it coming, you can poison breath them as they jump away. Works with the super versions, too.
ok guys u win. Mostly everything is unsafe. I think we should all stick to shorts and throws so we dotn get reversal Shippu’ed…
U GUYS WIN.
PS. Crossups are a mixup. U GUYS WIN AGAIN.
yea, sort of. lvl 3 raid is -5(iirc), so any 2-3 frame has a good chacne to punish. on higher lvl player, lvl 3 raid shouldn’t be used just to burn bar, imo. but this is a little off topic so i’ll just say yeah it’s safe/unsafe depending on which character you’re playing against.
Man this was the 1st time I really read this thread, and LOL. Tiger raid safe LOL, man I though you were getting better Geese. Guess not.
I like to guess. Pick an option and go RANDOM.
-close s.LK, 720 grab
-close s.LK, d.LP, d.LK xx death punches
+4 on the close s.LK, zero frame gap on close s.LK, d.LP. If the opponent tries anything other than jump away after the s.LK, they get super grabbed. If they try to jump away, they get comboed. I wonder how hard it is to backdash out though…
-d.LP, d.LP, RC 360+LK
-d.LP, d.LP, d.LK xx death punches
The two jabs push you out of range so that it’s pretty much impossible for the opponent to grab you out of your RC. Cheap!
-meaty close s.MK, 720
-meaty close s.MK, d.LK/d.MK xx punches
-knockdown, whiff something (like close s.MP), 720 or RC 360
-knockdown, whiff something, d.LP, d.LP xx HAMMER MOUNTAIN!
Cheap-ass VDO and his cheesy Raiden is what has inspired me to start using this character. I haven’t had a chance to play anybody good with this character yet though, so take whatever mix-ups I just listed with a grain of salt for now. I don’t know how truly effective they are yet.
wtf lvl2 tiger raid is pretty much safe. why would u ever use lvl1 or 3? y ever use non-c sagat? haha seriously lvl2 is safe as in 99% safe.
…unless you’re fighting against N-Groove or any short character.
ok seriously now, SUBJECT CHANGE.
I know his level 2 is safe, but whoever was talking, was talking about Ino’s K groove Sagat.