They’re not as good as season 1, but they are good enough. More than good enough. They are still the best AA in the game.
Saying they aren’t as good as season 1, when the are still very powerful and still better than what most characters have, is disengenuous.
Yeah they aren’t “as good” but they are still great so…
To be fair he was responding to a post that claimed you won’t notice a difference if you just change your timing. It’s not like he came in trying to make it seem like dp’s are bad. Still it sucks to eat a jump in combo after a late dp from a recovering fireball.
Yeah being a shoto inherently puts you in more situations where your dp will lose. Since traditionally you have to late dp to anti air after a fireball. Cammy and Necalli don’t have to worry about that and Cammy still gets 2 season 1 quality dps whenever she activates v trigger
That’s a fair point I guess.
I watched daigo this weekend, threw a fireball, opponent jumped it, it would have been a deep AA, daigo did ex DP.
Winning. Shit took a chunk out as well.
It’s hard to really feel sorry for the invincibility nerf in this exact siatuation since there are easy ways around said thing.
Necalli as an example can’t convert off of 2 jabs in many situations, but he can a,ways convert with ex stomps.
Now, necalli players don’t like to spend meter unless the pay have to, but I do see haitani using the meter on ex stomps from cr.lp when it’s applicable (like when he’s punishing something -3 or -4)
Necalli players could whine about not having a good punish at -3 for no meter… but it’s meh. He gets a punish with meter. And if he has no meter? Well no good punish then.
It’s simple to me.
And this isn’t saying ryu couldn’t use a buff here or there in certain places.
Yeah, I’ve been using ex dp a lot as an AA because of the damage. I figured I’d try to get as much damage as I can off AA’s to discourage jumping more.
I dunno… I actually want the opponent to keep jumping so I can keep getting that free DMG 
That’s kind of why it’s not so ideal with a two million health-power damaging shoryuken, because nobody would jump into your anti-air then. With Akuma I’m willing to spend the meter for the anti-air though…
To me the tragedy is that removing full invul is such a lazy + drastic move to make. There are myriad other ways you can balance DPs (assuming for the sake of argument that they needed to be balanced). You could change the hitbox (less horizontal range, less vertical range, etc), you could change the startup (slower start up and you get easier safe jumps), you could make some vulnerable to a low profile, etc (plus, an ancillary benefit of this would be that new players learn that DPs are not unfair/cheap/yolo/etc). A knee-jerk removal of full invul for all but EX DPs is, as I said, lazy and drastic; the kind of balancing we’ve come to expect from Capcom
The big deal comes from the fact that when certain jumps are ambiguous, late dp is the best answer which will now get stuffed.
When you’re focused really heavily on the ground game and someone jumps, you can really only react with a late dp a lot of the time which gets stuffed now. It’s hard to play neutral when your normals are relatively weak, compensation comes with the fireball (risky) and with tunnel vision on the ground game. You need razor sharp focus to compete in the ground game with a shoto, and taking away the ability to twitch react with a late dp hurts a shoto’s neutral a lot.
Try fighting against urien, having to take into consideration all the options he has and anti airing a yolo ex knee drop without even having a meterless dp. Spend the meter in these situations you say? So I’m forced to give up my damage potential and spend the bar just to prevent someone from making a yolo move? Applies to untrue blockstrings as well, and they aren’t exactly easy to react to (requires some amount of prediction).
Without ridiculous normals, anti fireball tools, command grab, or get in free moves, having a dp was the equalizer. At least retaining strike invincibility or having upper body invincibility would be enough
I love the DP salt, especially when the smug DP users all said such things as:
It’s all very LOL worthy.
The funny thing though is I suspect the fully invincible meterless reversals will come back, but that it will be a berf situation.
I find it highly comical though that the people saying “git gud, adjust” aren’t getting good and adjusting, at least with respect to complaining about the change.
Dime, you’re a scrub, your opinion doesn’t matter
If only shaming language worked on me, or you were good at a GOOD streetfighter game 
That must also be why I have people pming me for my opinion because they don’t want to deal with with forum bullshit.
You’re king scrub and your voice only resonates with the scrub spirit. Of course the newbies will look up to you. I’ll just be trying to convince them to not drink the kool-aid in the meantime
Says the dude being smug about the opposite.
Don’t take my koolaid phrase. Use something else like:
“Hitconfirming without a Brian by mochalatte, a treatise on how to make diamond in sf5”
I’m only smug because ive had to defend it against hords of shotos that started out being smug to me.
I rarely start out the asshole but I’m totally wiling to take it to asshole territory if others are going in that direction.
I side with Dime in this one. Attempts to discuss this in season 1 were met with derision and shallow arguments by the DP crowd, condfident on Capcom being on their side. Hard to have any interest to discuss it now especially if even now they double down on the strawman arguments.
I still totally disagree that meterless DPs needed to be removed but I DO agree that there’s a discussion to be had, since “meterless DPs were in past SF games” is not a valid argument for their inclusion in SFV.
@javert dig your avatar btw
If you agree there’s a discussion to be had, then ok:
Most of these become balanced when you apply “requires meter” to the example. But in this case you are arguing “doesn’t require meter” so how do you balance that within the context of the things I’ve just stated above?
I have answers to most of them but no one would like most of them and no one has been willing to even talk about the subject so I’ve just kept my thoughts to myself.
@Dime_x I’ll try to answer your points tomorrow but since I’m about to go to sleep I question of my own:
**what do you say to the fact that 4/8 of S1’s top 8 managed to pull amazing results despite having no meterless reversal? with 2 of them having no invincible reversal at all?
**
I’ve brought this up several times before and you’ve yet to give a satisfactory answer. if tournament results prove that characters without a meterless reversal could hold their own against characters who do have one, I think that completely shuts down any abstract theorycrafting about how broken DPs are. we have to start with the tournament results and then construct our analysis from there, rather than starting with analysis then cherry-picking tournament results to support said analysis.
A. They were balanced better than the meterless dp characters.
Ok, cya tomorrow
I suspect nobody else will jump in before then…