you yun players settle down before you wake up makoto
hahahha pyro, im not different…but that’s not the point. i’d rather evo be ran with console if its more convenient and beneficial to the tournament directors. those who whine really need to just take the hit and play with it. i mean, if they’re using console 3S, then just treat it as console 3S. don’t have that “we must have arcade perfect” mindset. if they decide to run console 3S, then everyone gets shafted. it’s not like any one person is victimized…everyone has to deal with the changes.
as for character specific crap, deal with it. if you rely on something so much that you can’t win without it, then you aren’t good enough anyway :o
every little move in high level play is critical. the whole game changes if you take something away, if it was as easy as u make it sound to be, take it away and still be able to beat the best players in the world, there would be no reason to argue the ps2 version. i’m sure winning is very possible on ps2 version w/o something, but it takes away from the overall mindgames, mixups, setups that might be critical to winning that round.
are YOU that damn good that you can still beat all the best players in the world w/o it? and yes they will all be playing w/ the same disadvantages which makes it even worse
no ones played or practiced on the ps2 version of 3s except for paul, mopreme, kamui. i think that those attending evo really deserve to play on what they practiced on, im sure the japanese feel the same way. why reduce the level of play b/c the players are not used to playing on a game a little different from the original? i think this is important enough to WHINE and BITCH about
edit: bringing this up again. 20 minutes of exhausive testing is great for seeing if unblockables work (2 minutes), links work (10 minutes), and the other 8 minutes to fuck around with other shit. but what determines if this is truly arcade perfect is through gameplay. vigorous gameplay, tourney gameplay, and all that other shits. if that hasn’t been proven, stick to superguns. thanks
Hi Paul 
The man speaks nothing but truth!
i know that the intricacies of arcade and console are very evident in 3S. if it were me, i’d want arcade perfect too. things are so much easier to do, and execution is not as crucial. but the point remains, if its best for the tournament directors, then it’s not that important to me. like i said, everyone’s playing on the same playing field, so disadvantages for you are disadvantages for them. the best players in the world must adapt to whatever changes as well. you just have to go in playing with the mindset that this is console 3S, not arcade.
but maybe i’m too tolerable :lol:
wat BIG changes can be there tat will mess up YOUR game play, really.
so u not think the japaness players will place top 8 any way,
or tat just because it has a FEW glitches (if it has any at all)
japanesse players wont make top 8
final line, if ur good,u’ll place. Tats all that it is to it. a few glitches wont help or worsen the game dramticly.
my two cents.
If that were the case then it would have been put on DC, end of story. But it isnt. 3s needs to be arcade perfect. Karathrows, unblockables, and resets are game breaking glitches in 3s. What if another gamebreaking glitch was discovered only in the ps2 version during evo?
Because of parrying, timing is very important in 3s. If there are speed issues with ps2 version, then those are big issues. Not everyone owns a ps2. So not everyone can adapt to the new changes.
Keep it on superguns this year. It was the orginal plan anyways. Put 3s on console next year. Maybe within a year and alot of testing with ps2 we can actually decide if it is or isnt arcade perfect. Maybe peeps will get ps2 for 3s. Who knows…maybe the XBOX version will be better than the ps2.
Warning:long rant.
I have to disagree. I know PLENTY of folks not competing that won’t because console lends itself to too many dumb issues. It’s never taken seriously aside from the newer generation who grew up on them. Top 3 results don’t tell the whole story. To me, that just shows that the top 3 played on console a lot. I think the results, overall, would be different. It’s like x-box live results. You watch those matches and you see some folks landing nice, full combos. Then you see the other guy randomly waking up with a dp for apparently no reason. Somehow, at times, it looks like one person is lagging and the other isn’t. On console, most going to non-major tournies are practicing on console because of Evo and NOT because it’s more accurate or better in their minds. Top 3 results don’t show the 20 missed ccs due to joystick barely moving so that the stick doesn’t hit the corner the same way, etc.
I don’t play too often anymore. Of course, with no arcade here, when I do, it is on console. It’s like SF lite. The intensity is lost although there is a lot more joking and laughing involved. Why? Because every game is a joke. There are some games without any mistakes and then there are times when the most ridiculous stuff happens because of slight controller movement. A millimeter is the difference between a fireball and a dp. A millimeter is the difference between landing the winning blow and eating a huge combo and losing.
The video for the velcro confirmed this for me. This is how it will be at Evo. If the table was solid enough to stay on the ground, a clutch dp, on reaction, would most certainly jolt it out of position even if it doesn’t fly across the table because of the velcro.
HECK! A cabinet, when not bolted down doesn’t work either. A clutch move(again, meaning a move that is done with lightning fast twitch muscles tensing instantly) will lift the panel up. But see, if that happened at a prior tourney, the round or match would be replayed after the problem was solved. There is no standard for accuracy at this years’ Evo. If the stick clearly moves even with the velcro, is there any recourse for the player? I mean, the loss didn’t come from actually messing up, it came from reacting naturally and causing the stick to move, therefore, a missed motion that, on arcade or cabinet, would never have happened. On the off chance it did though, it was remedied. This won’t happen at Evo. There will be a large ammount of players that will be bitching after Evo about how their CC wouldn’t have messed up or how that fireball should’ve been a dp or how that dp should have been a super.
See, if ppl said that on a standard stick, they’d be laughed at since that shit doesn’t mess up for that many ppl. On console, however, it’s legitimate.
Another problem is that there isn’t a standard anymore for Evo. There are standards in every sport. Boxing gloves are a standard weight. Baseball has a standard ball. When a different one is used, the game is even labelled differently like whiffle ball or softball. I’m sure more ppl could compete if the bat was thicker but…yeah. Without a standard, it comes out sloppy. I’m all for having pads vs sticks on the side but, when it comes down to the nitty gritty, I want the real thing. The standards we all put down from the beginning.
So, in the end, it’s really not Evo anymore. It’s not sf to me. It’s “Soft-SF.”
I think Evo will be a great event. I don’t think the wins will garner respect in the same way…unless console-only players are doing the respecting. MWC is the US SF Championship now and Evo is the big fighting game convention where you can bring your own stick and if shit doesn’t work like it should, no biggie. It’s not all that serious, afterall.
And on a personal note, I need to be turned on. There is nothing at Evo that I know of yet that will take me out of a casual mood. It’s just like playing on a cabinet with shitty sticks when you know your shit is not going to come out as it should(last years’ downstairs arcade had this horrible 3s machine. Some ppl took the games seriously anyway and were topics of laughter later).
No one is going to admit that they should’ve eaten something that never came out. It happens all the time here. I now have a perfect 360 mas stick and so do the homies. When we try to play a little more serious there are a ton of times when both myself and my opponents KNOW that a motion was done and a button was pressed and that shit didn’t come out right. That’s at home being as comfy as you can be. We just laugh knowing that the wrong guy won. Winning and losing means little under those circumstances.
Ppl may want to be good sports but, when that shit goes down, there will be plenty of hard feelings.
I’m not saying that it’s a bad idea overall. But not having some kind of standard makes the tourney a bit iffy. The things you can do with your own stick or pad are lame. I’m gonna cry foul if I see some fool doing reversal lightning legs consistently on a pad, lol.
K, just throwing in my thoughts at the moment. Nothing personal. I just feel that there should be a standard of some sort in any form of competition. I also think that going all console happened a year too soon. This year would’ve been better if games were split between the two or there were tourneys for both arcade and console. THEN you could properly gauge the brunt of the results side by side on the same day. I don’t know anyone who has a good day and a bad day, on the same game at the same time. But I think I could guarantee that there would be a major difference in who was placing.
One more thing. If top players are using charge characters, they’ll have less difficulty when clutching moves on reaction. Doing a dp or super on the fly is more likely to move the stick than one sharp, fast motion like a charge. So, if you’re iffy on the console, try switching to some charge characters. You’re less likely to mess up:)
Edit:Superguns should be used as it looks like some jumped the gun on calling ps2 3s “arcade perfect.” The supergun is guaranteed to be reliable.
Apoc.
“Edit: lemme make this relevant”
Wow that was a hot trick, sneaking in a rant under false auspicious. Wouldnt Supergun be played on console sticks anyway?
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The problem with xbox live is that it’s ‘almost live’, if lag was eliminated, the results would be just as good as anything else. If you remove the internet from internet play and have it in person, the problem is solved.
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So consoles started with evo? hardly, it’s just the realization of where the community has been for a long time, and allowing the vast majority of players to participate in the scene they have been in control of anyway.
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So let me get this right, we’re supposed to accept that you don’t play sf anymore, and fuck around once in a while on controls you obviously haven’t taken the time to learn, the REASON it’s a joke is because it’s console. How bout I walk into an arcade once every few months and play a couple games, try some combos and bitch about the controls. Would that make it even?
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At least you realize that nothing has changed there, EXCEPT now people have the option to use controls (pads, japanese joysticks), where it doesn’t happen, instead of being forced to play on inferior equipment.
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I like how you change the scenario around, the truth is that in the situation you like to bring up (missing a clutch reversal because of the joystick), your match would NOT be replayed. And if you didn’t have a ‘name’, you’d probably just get labeled a scrub and laughed out the place. The funny part is that the complaint in the arcade is 100x as legitimate as it is on console.
They were laughed at not because the complaint wasn’t valid, but because people had to protect the directors from everyone just saying their controls sucked and ruining the whole event.
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Controls are things like tennis racquets, race cars, which are all customizable to a certain degree for players to use and which the game allows for… i guess we weren’t counting all the sports.
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The only reason there is another level respect to be talked about is because SF came out on console. You can have MWC, only a matter of time before console players win that too, then what?
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Maybe cause half your points are about a game that noone plays, and the other half are about how much you don’t care about the future of SF as much as preserving the 1990’s forever and ever. It seems the only way to turn you on would be to invent a time portal.
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Does that work at the arcade too? I hereby void every loss i ever had, because i KNOW what i pressed, and it didn’t work. Or does that excuse only work on console?
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Ok I give up, lets have a standard, lets play SF the way it was meant to be played, the way it was designed, the way the best players have played the game… but who wants to pay shipping on 30 japanese cabinets?
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The console switch happened 2 years later than it should have IMO. I don’t see why gauging results are important, you sound like a boxing promoter fixing fights trying to make sure the ‘right’ people win instead of letting them compete. The fact is we lost a lot of time by not switching over, and thats why we are just now figuring out how to stablize joysticks and such, when we should have been past that by now, but letting certain people win was more important than progress, so thats where we are now.
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of course the alternative is to learn how to use a joystick. If it’s impossible to not move the joystick, and your concerned about it moving, use something else then, the initial month of work will last the rest of your life. Instead you say the answer is to handicap the majority of players so certain people don’t have to suffer learning how to use a damn joystick or pad properly.
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Maybe now people will be more receptive to changing it to DC where it should have been in the first place.
omg, i just realized that i can’t read posts more than 5 sentences long. 
Good day and bad day on the same game at the same time: Any Makoto player in 3s.
Tourney results are screwy all the time, anyway. If you want, go back to the sports comparison and look at all the upsets that happen there. Heck, look at the upsets at last year’s EVO.
And I just don’t see the argument in messing up controls. If you have your own stick, you can practice on it and get perfectly precise. If the tournament is on a cabinet, you have pretty much guaranteed that everyone flying in will be on controllers that they’re at least slighty unfamiliar with.
Also, could it be that the lack of seriousness in your console sessions comes from the fact that it’s casual play?
FFA is going to have a big 3s tournament on Thursday (day before evo signups). We’re going to have usa to usa cab, usa to japan cab, and japan to japan cab, all with perfect competition buttons, wico 360’s, and then astro cities for the japanese cabinets.
Last year KO and KSK came by for casual play and we didnt have any idea that so many people would show up. This year we’re going to have the “World Championships of Third Strike”.
So anyone looking to play real 3s should come by.
Edit: Raoh, Mester, KO, KSK, Georgia, and Sugiyama will all come to the FFA tourney if they fly in for evo.
OK, first of all, I don’t think we really have a choice in deciding which version of 3S we’re playing. From the way it was posted at the beginning of this thread, it was already decided that 3S would be on PS2 a few months ago. We were just told it would be on Superguns to “tide us over” so that no one would complain about an arcade-imperfect 3S, and since it was anticipated that PS2 3S would be closer to the arcade in light of Kuni’s comments about the game originally.
Secondly, Apoc is right on target with my sentiments about this summer’s events. MWC is the real tournament I’m looking forward to competing in. Evolution is the convention I’m going to so I can hang out with everyone. Win, lose, whatever–anything can happen on console. Sure, I play on my stick at home a lot, but using my stick isn’t even the same if I’m playing it in a different environment–if it’s not in between my legs with a flat surface to lean my back against, it doesn’t feel quite the same, and I can’t adequately stabalize my joystick.
I just returned from TiT6, an all-console tournament in Texas consisting mainly of 3D fighters, but with GGXX and 3S on the side. The 3S tournament was first, and it took nearly the whole tournament for me to find a position that felt like I was playing at home. I finally did during the grand finals, but it wasn’t until then that I was even able to execute everything just like at home. GGXX began after 3S was over with, and by then I had found a good way to sit down so I’d say I played as well as I would have played on an arcade cabinet.
For a console tournament, TiT6 was the best I’ve been to. So I guess it can work, maybe. Considering it took me half the day to find a way to sit and hold my joystick like I do at home, though, I wonder if I’ll be able to in time at Evo. I wonder if there will even BE a comfortable way to sit–I really can’t execute if I’m not sitting the same style I do at home, because I’m not used to it at all.
MWC is definitely the tournament to be taken more seriously. Yes, Evo will be a gauge of skill. But it will also be a gauge of how well people can adjust to different playing environments. Just playing at home on your stick won’t cut it–you’ll have to play on your stick on a different TV, could be too big or too small, too high or too low for you to focus. The people who can make adjustments like this are more likely to win, and some people who are capable of winning but imcapable of making these sorts of adjustments may lose. The results WILL be different than if the tournament were on arcade. 1st might still get 1st, 2nd might still get 2nd, but there will be other changes. Maybe 3rd and 4th will get switched. Maybe 5th and 9th. You never know.
Yes, it’s true that you must make adjustments when playing at different arcades on different sticks sometimes, also, but there’s much more consistency involved in changing arcades than in changing environments with various settings of a console tournament.
There must be a standard for console tournaments, like Apoc said–for the seating arrangements, general height/distance away from TV, etc. etc. Until then, Evo will be a tournament measuring a combination of skill and adjustment rather than just skill. The people who are best at adjusting like this are primarily console players, so good console players and pad users will have a clear advantage over people who consider arcade cabinets the standard for tournament play. This was already demonstrated last year with Alex Tan’s top 8 finish in console GGXX. Yes, he was good, and he earned his keep, but if he had any close matches in the Top 32, his victory may have been decided by his opponent’s inability to adjust as well as he was able to.
i believe that i will be running this “World Championships of 3rd Strike” (tentative name) tourney.
if players are coming to play some real 3s and are in town, come to FFA the day before evo and lets have the REAL 3s tourney. FFA is located about an hour from pomona, where EVO is being held, so shouldn’t be that far.
more details will be posted in the tournaments and events thread in the coming week. RSVP please, it would be really helpful to the arcade and its directors, if an estimate of heads is given, thnx
ksk, raoh, mester, ko, sugiyama, georgia (tentative list of players, atleast 3 will be there) will be making appearances at this tourney. so all american players truly coming to compete in 3s this year, come to the “World Championships of 3rd Strike”
Yo.
Dreamcast 3s is nowhere near the same as arcade. Like, console Alpha 3 different. Bad idea. Bad. Don’t even joke.
N - Console Evo = Whiffle Ball? I can’t argue with that.
ouch. if i could find a way out there, i’d definitely come, but a cab ride for an hour would be way too much. hopefully the people i room with at shilo inn will have a rent a car.
You’re right, and you haven’t been arguing that vehemently for the past 3 months:p
Here’s the problem with PS2 3s imo, It’s a completely different version, that most won’t even get to try UNTIL evo. It’s far too early to claim arcade perfect I think since Capcom has never delivered an arcade perfect version of any game to console, and we aren’t even sure there won’t be a new glitch or something. Imagine this scenario, The prelims are going down, I’m in the same pool as, oh let’s say, thongboy. Of course he’ll play Twelve on me, I know this, he can’t see any risk in trying things because I’m white. EXCEPT, he wants to toy with my mind first, so he moves the cursor around trying to trick me(don’t think he isn’t sneaky, just look at that av, oh he’s a trickster alright) then he moves to Twelve. BUT WAIT, OH NO, it turns out that EXACT motion was the code for EX Twelve, who has a 8 way air dash and a RH that does 60 points of damage. So now, because arcade only characters are permitted at evo, EX Twelve is banned, but of course we didn’t have enough time to discover what sort of chicanery awakened the great rubber beast, so Twelve is now banned from the tourney in any form. After that we can only pray we don’t discover EX-Chun Li…
lol too good N-Ken
Look, I dont go to evo2k4… What theyre trying to say is that they might dont have a problem using ps2 3s, IF they could at least have trained for two months or so… Playing a ps2 version with no knowledge of the actual problems that might occur is as if you play cvs2 on speed 6 =/ Thats just a whole different game, while actually it isnt…
Just use the superguns if possible… I mean, it is cheaper then actual arcade cabinets, plus it is the closest you get to arcade perfect it is really arcade perfect isnt it?.