twelve is awesome. not strength wise or anything but some of his normals, his backdash, NDL, AXE, etc. are awesome.
since i like you i will tell you a secret.
twelve’s far strong will beat chun li’s back fierce every time as long as you aren’t in her face.
it goes right over it and slaps her in the chin. its amazing.
quite a few moves can be flat beaten by his far strong. when i say beaten i mean the other move will never intersect with far strongs vulnerability boxes (boxes created when you do the move, not your normal standing hurtbox).
ryu doing far forward?
slap it.
necro doing back strong?
slap it.
you haven’t played me using twelve that’s why you haven’t seen it much.
and tbh there are 3 kinds of twelve users and 99% fall into 2 categories.
using him from some kind of random decision or basically just using him with no intention of really playing.
and using him because they just want to air dash all over the place.
the last 1% are people actually interested in all his options and trying to do well despite twelve being pretty awful.
i mean seriously his backdash goes over lows and takes off like instantly.
say you’re playing ken. if ken is poking around with long range low forwards looking for a confirm. backdash takes you off the ground and out of range of his low forward on like the first frame. second for sure, twelve kind of hangs in the air during the middle of the dash (this will go over many lows). start wise though i think its probably the fastest moving backdash in the game. he moves so fast and so far in the first few frames. going in the air is just a huge bonus (counts as grounded for throws still of course). oh yeah this means he can also escape throws of course. yes he moves incredibly far in 1 frame.
just to add to this splurge/rant.
twelve has some great anti air options which are each quite different as far as timing, resulting positioning and all that.
yeah I was thinking about it last night and it occurred to me that I have no idea of how Twelve’s ground normals work or what they’re good for. just no experience against a Twelve that uses them, even online.
out of curiosity, does Twelve have any significant punishes off a parry? usually online I just see parry -> throw. gotta be something better than that.
Most of the videos I’ve seen of Twelve are like that too. They show some sick parry into big damage for other chars, then Twelve just gets like parry, b + mp or something. You could probably HJC mk into SAII if you use that and are close enough.
Just know that Twelve is never in the way of the other character.
Twelve might be the best Counter Pick to Hugo if we make note to keep Makoto out of contention here seeing as she is like half the cast’s counter pick.
Basically, Twelve doesn’t force himself on people, he’s just there and he’s making sure not to get in their way.
without super he’s a bit limited for punish. throw is good if its backthrow to setup taunt or an airdash in mixup or just to make space. but otherwise you can gain more meter and do at least the same damage i think from low short xx jab AXE. it really depends what you parried though, if its something with long recovery which they cannot cancel you can probably just do a fat fierce AXE and get all hits.
with super he can do solid damage off parry and he can confirm pretty easily into super off low short xx axe. which while not 100% safe on block, off the top of my head i think its safe mid screen against maybe ken sa3 but chun is going to hit you with sa2 maybe? it pushes you apart a good amount so the minus on block isn’t terrible or anything. and he has high parry close strong confirm into super too.
he’s a little like remy in that you’re going to take little nips off someones stamina bar most of the time and from time to time get some good damage.
i think the most successful twelves are the good pokers. twelve is imo designed to evade and poke. excellent backdash, walking goes under many moves and fucks with the timing of things, can turn invisible, can airdash, backthrow sends them across the screen and gives big frame advantage, ex ndl squishes you down to avoid high attacks and parries as projectile (so somewhat like ex hadouken you can use it to keep someone from moving around freely and if they parry you can do whatever). DRA lets you escape from stuff on a different trajectory than jump, superjump or airdashing.
jumping into your opponents sweet spot (for most characters, right up close is ideal) over and over doesn’t make much sense does it? yeah you need to get in here and there, and you have some stuff which helps you get out, but that doesn’t mean that’s where you should be most of the time imo. his moves do ok damage and are usually fairly safe. so why gamble over and over when you don’t have much to win from it?
i think pistachio is one of the best contemporary twelves. he does it all and that’s what makes any 3S player good with their character.
edit: there was also a twelve player using the green mk twelve a few months ago in touzaisen. i think he also played a pretty interesting twelve. basically just poking and looked for every possible chance to go invisible. pretty sweet.
yama too. not yamazaki. i dont think he plays anymore or has in a long ass time.
I really like the use of ambiguous cross up air hk that Yama does. Side switch looks very tricky and the delay from the normal’s startup makes it weird to parry a bit like makoto’s Tsurugi. Seems like it’s reasonably confirmable to SA1 as well. Can even just flash the beginning of the animation and land before it starts to hit.
Seeing that tactic once when Yama got a nice streak in a touzaisen made me wanna use twelve a bit.
so I’m new to being annoying online. I beat some guy and then he kept running into me online and backing out of the vs screen. Now we’re locked into some sort of ufcgym shodown. I think it’s been maybe 40 minutes. I sure as hell know I’m not gonna quit. I’ve tried everything, mocking his play, being nice, being mean, telling him I’m gonna walk out on him, telling him I’m sorry and I’ll see a relationship counselor(only if he is up for it I don’t wanna push him), but no response. I mean we’ve been together so long, we can’t just quit now right? For the kids? I mean what will my parents think if I just give up?
cool Lance just wondering I read a lot of the posts I just feel that if people put as much time on srk as practicing we would all be better that’s all I want.
how much stuff is written down about 12? Who talks about him. And you just crapped on someone who wasn’t making exaggerated claims like 12 is top tier or something ridiculous. Perhaps you didn’t read the whole thing and just wrote it off, yeah? Better call him out. Stop talking where you won’t even put up better words in its place.
you don’t want anyone picking 12, only better characters? Yeah everybody already does that. Don’t worry about that part.
long version, extra stuff just in place of he can’t speak for himself middle of the night
[details=Spoiler]No. You haven’t read enough. Tebbo did want to make some time to play with his buddies on arcade cab more often from what I remember. Maybe same as anybody we sometimes don’t get to play enough. Look for another online opponent then. Plenty of them everywhere
I wrote this out meaner in one line, guess I cross out the chun part, my fault assuming. Same as you assumed he doesn’t play or was leading people wrong or something
i’ve always said the answer to almost every question is playing more.
yes, i actually play.
if you ‘actually’ play you’d be aware that when you aren’t in the middle of a match, it’s pretty common to discuss in general and specifics of individual matches. “it was sick when…” “how did that even happen!?” “did you know…?”
thanks to igloo and hax btw. i appreciate the gesture
if a few people didn’t spend some time posting on SRK, a lot of people wouldn’t know much about the game. if you have a problem with people discussing the game you probably shouldn’t waste your time on a forum for discussion of the game.
of course twelve far strong can lose to back fierce. if you use far strong like a dumbass too close to her. i did say that. do we need to include a ‘proper use’ statement with every move/combo? i try to assume people aren’t stupid.
instead of saying ‘mehhhh definitely beatable’ why not go test it?
Yeah I don’t think there’s anything wrong with discussion like this. It’s fun and helps us understand the game better. And at this point most of us won’t ever get to the same level as the best players so we might as well just enjoy it however we want.
There’s an aspect of enjoyment you can get just from appreciating how the game works or exchanging tidbits of trivia. I understand it’s not always 100% important to real matches but it’s cool to talk about anyway.
Hindsight being 20 20 I came off like a bit of a jerk and I apologize Tebbo… I wasn’t trying to shit on his post about 12 or disagree with it I don’t play 12 or play against very many. The “meeh beatable” was more for akumahax talking about fierce which was probably misinterpreted there is a lot more to Chun then fierce. As far as discussion goes you guys are 100% right.
Have any of you guys ever actually played a 12 player online? Like a GOOD 12 player? I’ve played a noob or two who picked him, but is he one of those characters that people start off with before realizing that high blood pressure runs in their family so they should probably pick someone better in the interest of not going to an early grave? I’d love to play a decent 12 player once. Just once.
every child ive seen jump on the cab in doylestown picks twelve first.
i think one picked ryu but he probably just mashed buttons to start playing.
a decent twelve outside japan i don’t think is something you can really find. definitely not online where they can just play the crossup guessing game and win enough to encourage them to continue doing that. it’s a lot of work to develop the specific skillset for some of the more oddball characters. while 90% of 3S is relevant to any character, that 10% can be grueling and in the US from my experience there is a decent amount of pressure to pick someone who is around the middle relative strength wise, or better. it’s really a specific person who plays twelve. no other reason to play him other than you think the character and his moves are dope.
np mintchip. i am guilty of a lot of analysis but for like half the cast in the US people don’t know shit. so i think some discussion and breakdown can only help everyone make better gameplay choices. if you don’t know how a character’s moves work you’re bound to make some dumb mistakes. execution and the actual doing is more important imo but if you have no idea what to expect going in you have to pick up a lot of slack with focus, reads and technical ability.
