After viewing the results of evo this year i have to wonder if anyone else has kind of lost hope in this game. I have always defended this game in regards to its tier issue claiming that unlike CVS2 and MVC2 the game was not a top tier whore affair. However due to recent events i dont know if anyone can honestly defend 3s anymore and claim that this game isnt in the same boat. I always thought the game engine allowed for players to chose any character they want and achieve victory through skillful application but it would appear from the results that the game only has 3 usable characters. I dont want to cause any type of drama here but maybe the community should look into banning certain super arts, or maybe even adjusting the system direction to allow all super arts in competitve play. At this rate i fear 3s will become more of a novelty due to the heavy rotation of the same 3 characters.
have team tourneys, like they do in japan
not ruined just old
Please stop.
Games need to change, not rules for them. I understand what you are saying but I feel people pick whoever they feel they can win with (regardless of why) and it’s up to the other person to do the same and have at it. Here’s to the future.
At least you have three to pick from.:wgrin:
dumb thread
In the very highest of high-level play, yes.
No. Just no.
To me (and I won’t deny that I’m a spectator more than a player), the problem with 3S isn’t just the overpowered nature of the top 3 (really it’s just Chun and Yun, actually - only one Ken in the top 8), but that those characters are so damn boring to watch. MvC2 doesn’t have much character variety either, but I’m sure most will agree that the matches are very exciting. To be honest, I think the nature of 3S makes it a snoozefest the majority of the time (though certain characters are fun to watch), but the top 3 are certainly even more boring to watch than the rest of the cast.
You’re saying 3rd strike is ruined because Nitto/Issei/Ohnuki (top 3 this year) play Yun/Chun-li?
It’s not really the character that got them that far, but the person behind the stick. So saying that they won just because OMG Genei-jin / SA 2 seems kind of a small argument.
In all fairness I somehow doubt Nitto would have won playing twelve or even super art 2 Yun.
no, just no.
and i’m glad u realized 3s isnt balanced. i’m sorry to say but the USA will never beat japan in 3s unless more people pick yun up and learn to fight against him.
Any mirror match is crazy boring and unfortunately 2k6 finals had yun vs yun. Evo 2k5 also had chun vs chun, but with the added interest of US vs Japan. Japan vs Japan top four placing is definitely not going to interest the mostly american crowd.
don’t try to read more into it. Wanting to ban characters and super arts is ludicrous. Make it team tourneys like japan for better theater.
Welcome to 2003. If you got all of the best 3S players in the world and had them play a round robin tournament, the top 25 would be nothing but Yun/Chun/Ken. And it’s been that way for years. Everyone who understands fighting games at all knows that the “3S has no tiers” argument is fanboy bullshit. If you like the game, you keep playing it. If you don’t, then you stop. Like polarity said, tiers are only unavoidable in the very highest level of play. Anything below that, and you can outperform your opponent with a lesser character. Either that, or settle for 2 wins for every one of his 5. Or play another game. Yun has always been the reason i was never able to get into 3S.
There’s always ST.
Btw, for the record, up until this year (with the A-Vega/Bison/Blanka teams) CvS2 was way way way more balanced than 3S has ever been. If you’re gonna talk shit about that game, at least get your facts straight and talk about how you hate low fierce.
stream3: Every mirrior match is boring except Shoto vs Shoto. It’s one of the axioms of competitive SF : ) That’s why Cali tournaments are always more fun to watch than any other tournaments, even in the most broken games.
i hate teirs. you will never do anything innovative if you think like that. think outside the box… maybe thats why japanese players create teirs with their creative ways and new ways of playing characters and american players just copy and struggle trying to keep up.
note: this is a generalization before anyone goes crazy.
3S is so burnt out imo. I mean there’s nothin really new in it. So repetitive. Lemme break it down 4 u
Hey look at the Chun-Li/Ken match vid
o kool ummm…hey wait, didnt we jus see this vid?
No those were different players
R u sure?
Yes
Will look at Chun-Li, turtle, cr. MK to SA2
Yeeeaaaah soooo…???
That’s what your so-called different player did!
AAAANNNNDDDD
Dude it’s the same fuckin vid!
Well first off I appreciate everyone who responded with some rational and intelligent replies, but to people who say"dum thread"please take your troll ass out of here and get a life. Now on to the tipic at hand, my argument is that because this game is often considered by many as one of the best capcom fighters ever made i just dont know if it sets a good tone for the community to have this game feaure such a dull and uninspiring competitve scene. I know its a old and tired issue seeing as how everyone approaches tiers in games differently…but if we where to review facts it would seem as if though the game has a very overpowered top 3 that complety destroy the rest of the cast hence ruining the competive/fun aspect of the game because your basically forced to only play as 3 characters out of a cast of 19.
comparing a team based game vs a 1 vs 1 game is somewhat of a difficult comparison. Furthermore the team based game has SIX different “grooves”. if we flattened CVS2 and made it completely 1 vs 1, I’m pretty sure we be seeing a lot of Blanka, Sagat, Bison.
If you want to talk balance, go away from the capcom games and towards games like GGXX.
Haha, I’ve always thought exactly the same thing. I think the main reason mirror matches are boring is because of the absence of zoning; both players have the same optimal range, so there’s no battle to get into your sweet spot and get the opponent out of his. Yet this doesn’t seem to apply to Shoto vs Shoto matches (controversial opinion: I kinda like Sagat vs Sagat in CvS2, too). What is it about them matches that makes them so damn entertaining?
There’s no such thing as “creating” tiers. The tiers are already built into the game, the players just discover them.
You guys should watch Kuroda Fest on Youtube if you still suffer the delusion that lower level characters like Q can’t dominate top tier characters AND top Japanese players.
stream3: That’s not as easy an argument as you make it seem. Everyone in CvS2 has bad machups except for MAYBE A-Blanka but he’s not an unstoppable character either. So “flattening” it could just as easily create more variety. I mean, right now you have at least 8 characters in the top tier, but everyone is tired of seeing Blanka or Sagat on every team. If you make it a 1 vs 1 game, even if that reduced the top tier to 5 characters, the finals would still look more varied than right now. The bottom line is that you mentioned 3 characters, but i can mention at least 3 more that are on the same level: Sakura, Vega, Cammy or Guile. Also, a weird thing happens when you make it 1 vs 1. Grooves with only one or two good characters suddenly become more playable. For example, P-Cammy is a monster but nobody else is nearly as good in P-Groove. Not having to handicap yourself with medicore characters makes P-Cammy a lot better. I’m sure there’s an S-Groove character somewhere that would also show up in top 16 if not top 8. All i’m saying is: Let’s not oversimplify or jump to conclusions. Ok, i’m also saying i like CvS2.
::whoosh::
yeah so if someone discovers a glitch, and that changes teirs completely, they are only “discovering” a tier initially planned for the game. Right. I think programmers try to create a game that is as balanced as possible, usually failing mind you, and teirs are created based on how well these strengths/weakness are exploited. And then these programmers try to update their games by tweaking the system a bit to make it even more balanced.
Ok spectator, go watch some matches on youtube and take notes.
And I’m not disagreeing with what is being said about the top tiers, there are some slightly overpowered characters. This is just proving that third strike needs an update, which will sadly probably never happen.