Are you on VFDC? Maybe It’s just a vocal minority, but I dunno, that community seems like it’s only about two dozen people strong. It seems to have cooled down lately, but for a good while there, I’d log on a few times a week and every time somebody would have a new status update along the lines of “playing insert game that isn’t FS here now, SO MUCH BETTER THAN FS”. And the people who refer to FS as “Fucking Sucks” or “Fucking Shit”. And the people going on about the balance, whining about how “only Akira and Jacky are viable”. Then the new tier list comes out, Jacky dropped a bunch and now it’s “only Akira is a viable”. The balance isn’t fantastic, but nobody in America is good enough for it to matter that much. People are putting too much stock in “large gap”. Up until a year ago, consensus was that Aoi was a good character. Now she’s apparently E tier, and everybody acts like they knew it all along.
I’ve played FS all of maybe 3 times in the last year, and I wish I still had the drive to play it. Maybe it really is just a minority, because ranked was still populated despite repeated claims from haters that the game was “dead” within a month of it’s release. It wasn’t, not by a long shot, but if enough people say stupid things about a game, people will start beleiving them. See also, the general FGC thinking VF is “super hard to get into”. It isn’t. To me, it’s much easier to play at a basic level than Tekken. Also the belief that VF has no personality. It has an incredibly distinct personality, and I really like it, and I wish people (in the VF community even) would stop saying “VF needs a reboot that drastically changes the characters and adds GOOD voice acting”. The cheesy voice acting is wonderful, you people are no fun at all. For some super crazy reason, people also keep lying about the (download only) home version being a “massive downgrade” from the arcade version and having “noticably worse graphics and sound”. I can’t say for 100% positive that there is no difference, but I played the arcade version a bunch (and these people haven’t) and I didn’t notice any difference. The grainy announcer is a stylistic choice. A weird one, but it is what it is. Most of the videos on the arcade version on youtube are really low quality so it’s hard to prove my point, but their claims were never backed up by anything, and I’d see people parroting them in the shout box. Super super frustrating.
But now I’m rambling about VF, so I’ll stop. I really do miss the game, I hope I can get back into it some day.
There wasn’t some big 3S community before SF4 released.
The number of 3S players would probably be smaller now if SF4 never came along.
But keep fighting the fight against other peoples’ opinions and what not. You’re absolutely going to convince them by telling them they’re stupid scrubs who play a bad, noncompetitive game.
I never said what people should and shouldn’t like. You can jizz on your CD of SF4 every day for all I care. The important part of my argument that you seemingly can’t understand either because you haven’t actually read any of my posts, or you are just that dumb, is that it isn’t about LIKING. It isn’t about EMOTION. It’s about what deserves to be in the competitive scene based on the game itself, not what others FEEL about it. I know that’s tough for you to wrap your head around since you’re probably one of the majority of people who value emotion above logic, and can’t step away from their feelings for a second to look at a situation logically, but I don’t care what game people LIKE. I care what game DESERVES to have the spotlight based on its own merits as a COMPETITIVE game with COMPETITIVE INTEGRITY. You’re a simple person, aren’t you Ryan? Don’t like to think much, and don’t like to type much. I can see that.
Can you NOT think for yourself? Do you have to look at the players to make a decision? Can you not tell that mechanics like Ultras and Xfactor exist to help the losing player have a chance at winning? Do you not realize that this compromises competitive integrity? Are you literally pretending that all mechanics are made equal, and that dumbing down inputs to allow scrubs to play instantly isn’t a way to degrade a game’s competitive integrity? Do you even know what you’re talking about at this point?
You’re trying to say that because I’m not the best player in the world, I can’t see these mechanics and judge which ones are included to allow players to excel with less work. Are you kidding me right now?
to Komatik:
Why are you even talking about Melee? Seriously, when did the 3s community even care what smash was about? Do you even think that smash is comparable to 3s? Really? Dude, just leave if you think that you can use Melee as any example that is comparable to the situation of 3s vs SF4. I’m talking about 3s and SF4. Can you stay on subject for a second and realize that SF4 has a ton of mechanics that are dumbed down to allow scrubs with low execution to play, or low level of hit confirming to stay safe, or scrubs who just suck being given the ability to come back? FADCs not only make your moves safe, but if the move hits, it’s an option select into a bigger combo. You HAVE To be kidding me if you think that this mechanic isn’t designed to specifically allow scrubs to be competitive. Please be kidding.
We can objectively compare both games and find out which game is better suited for competition. At least, those of use who don’t want to lie can.
Oh, and for the person who compared PARRY TO XFACTOR AND ULTRA. HAHAHAHAHAAHAHA
Keep doing jack shit while supporting SF4, that’ll bring 3s back into the spotlight.
I just wanted to point out that I was a Tekken player for the entirety of T5 and DR. I picked it up because the Koreans in my area were talking shit about how Tekken takes more skill than 3s etc, and I wanted to beat them and prove them wrong. I eventually got pretty good at Tekken and was able to beat them. T6 came out and the “accessibility” syndrome hit with rage and bound. Bound destroyed what I loved about Tekken’s combo system. Before, you had to choose whether you wanted a wall carry combo or a damage combo, wall carry doing less damage over all, but setting up oki and threat of wall splat made it worth it in some cases. Bound just took away jab dash jab etc combos and made every max damage combo into a wall carry, while rage gave the losing player a chance to win with one half life wall splat combo. What a joke. Even the Koreans I was playing with stopped with T6.
Accessibility is poison to the FGC and its competitive integrity, and it is seen all across the board in all major games. That’s why when ShillMan decided to beg at GamesCom for even MORE accessibility, I wanted to slap him over the internet.
I only got into other SF games because 4 was accessible and a good starting block. I’m sure others are the same.
I definitely wouldn’t call SF4 a scrubby or bad game either. Yes it has a low skill cap but the higher level player will pretty much always win regardless of character (okay Sim vs Hawk maybe not :P). I think this was proven by a Gen and Rose winning the last 2 years (non scrub characters). Do you ever think that a big SF3 tourney will ever not have a Yun/Chun/Ken winning? The coop cup and X-MANIA results prove this like 99% of the time. Like no way is Twelve winning a big tournament. In SF4, the lowest tier character could win a tournament like Evo given enough dedication.
Uh, given that the worst character in SF4 is Deejay, there’s no chance in hell that the lowest tier character will win EVO. The character doesn’t even work and is absurdly free to low meaties on wakeup. Besides which parry is roughly a million times better at making your character’s suckyness not matter than anything the SF4 engine has to offer.
Besides which AE2012 Gen is solidly midtier, maybe high mid and Ultra Rose is a high tier character. It’s like being surprised that Dudley or Akuma is doing well in 3S.
The low skill cap talk is pretty baseless IMO. The game is shoddily designed but there’s a ton of room to show skill.
Fuck your snowflake comments do you really not see how much parry changes the neutral, okizeme, zoning, and pressure game? It’s completely untraditional.
i’m sure you don’t need me to tell you this but much in the way this community functions is largely based on the feelings, as in emotions, of the higher ranking players. They are also very much uninterested in any kind of change unless it comes in the form of sanctuary for themselves, like in those end of the world movies where the world leaders take off on a submarine or find themselves in a fallout shelter. It’s why the community is also considered to be comprised of many a scumbag. There is no community as a virtue, we are granted a community as we would take a group to be one.
If you’ll look back a few pages, maybe more than a few, you’ll see that we’ve tried to do what you’re doing and it was Ryan and exo that came in here and just said ignore these dudes that want to change things, though in exos defense he was saying we could work on the community through ggpo. You’re right, though. It’s not about playing a good game anymore. It’s about playing the cool game. That’s about as much thought as goes in to that, though. It’s a natural intelligence that guides the rest of its growth so you might not find too many people willing to espouse such an endeavor towards a more guided approach. People are busy now, too, considering we’re all a bit older than the sf4 community.
By that token any game ever is completely untraditional. I could take nearly any game ever, take some aspect largely unique to it and say it’s completely untraditional, even if the game largely hews to tried and true principles. The shell of 3S is as traditional as can be. It just has parry injected into it. Smash, SamSho V Special and the like are more deserving of that moniker, for whatever it’s worth (not much).
when I said character match ups and character specific discussions I meant that those types of discussions is what this site needs more of. this is how we can use srk as a tool to improve.
as far as documentation goes, the japanese do not have a site that goes into details of match ups. at most, there are personal blogs, memos and Twitter posts in japanese (rare).
Game restaurant is an ideal site to translate. I began translating it but haven’t translated anymore since the start of the summer, if someone wants to help maybe I’ll start back up. It would take a long time to translate everything, so my goal was to translate the system mechanics and game techniques.
wikiwiki.jp/3rd is also a decent website, that talks more about character specifics (however it does not have everything about a character included, and some characters have more than others).
So people here should discuss character specifics and match ups more, and it wouldn’t hurt to document system mechanics > game techniques > some character knowledge > match ups (in this order of precedence IMO)
As far as developing a scene, I’ve tried a little before and didn’t have success so no clue what to do there.
Regarding 3S resources, I do have some things I would like to contribute (Not that I think it will really entice new players to pick up 3S). Give me some time to put some stuff together.
But one could easily say “Can you not tell that mechanics like parries exist to help the losing player have a chance at winning? You can be about to lose then you get a lucky wake-up parry into super then you win. Do you not realize that this compromises competitive integrity?”
But that’s an overly simplistic view, isn’t it? Your ideas on SF4 are about as ignorant as Viscant’s ideas on 3rd Strike. If you just said you didn’t like SF4’s mechanics it would’ve been totally fine (and I would’ve agreed with you). I’ve been very civil and patient but I’m not going to repeat myself again, so I made this extremely well drawn graph to illustrate my point. Courtesy of some flash based MS Paint rip-off. Basically, what I am saying is the compromising of ‘competitive integrity’ would only matter to someone who had a skill level above the red bar.
And I never said anything about ‘dumbing down inputs to allow scrubs to play instantly’ so please don’t put words in my mouth. Though now that you’ve brought it up, I only care how it affects me - I don’t want to play a game where I’m not going to have fun executing combos. If an opponent can take off a large chunk of my health even when their execution is a lot worse than mine, it’s still my fault for getting hit. But even these ‘scrub’ games like Persona and SF4 have some pretty tough combos if you’re going to get to the optimised stuff. It’s not like 3S is particularly execution heavy game, bar a few characters.
I have to admit you had me fooled for a long time though. you put more effort into your new identities than other people do. but I’d recognize that rhetoric anywhere!
@komatik I still think you’re wrong. No other game allows you to negate anti airs, placed moves, and turn the tide with a read as easily as 3s. This is only achievable with the frame advantage of parry. No guard cancel, air block, or other comparable defense mechanic allows you to inflict that kind of damage while changing the neutral so much. You probably aren’t good and don’t fully understand it anyway. I’m not going to elaborate further.
I’d be good to have a place with better support.
Look at this: Official complain about the new forum layout thread
I’ve had no real reaction of the people running this site, and I’ve been trying to get them to aknowledge the problem for months and months. Don’t think they give 2 shits about the forum asprect of their site anymore.
