Yep, the whole FGC is going to shit because of one game coming out that a few dudes want to play.
One game?
No, this is the 4th or5th game the FGC has put in front of 3s, CvS2 and MvC2, that sucks and compromises the integrity of the FGC
SF4, MvC3, SFxT, Persona, this bullshit, under night pedophile birth, I donât even know what else
Stop pretending the FGC hasnât already gone to shit and scrub pandering.
When fucking divekick has more majors in a year than 3s, how can you say the FGC hasnât lost all legitimacy and ISNâT now all about scrub pandering to maximize profit? Get your head out of your ass.
You think youâre being funny with your sarcasm, but all youâre doing is showing how brainwashed youâve become by listening to maximillian say âthis is the game we playâ over and over again.
Are you that JesusisLord guy
Uh so donât play those games then geez.
Who cares? It doesnât make sense to knock sf4 or any other game. A lot of people like fucking pop music. Itâs garbage yea? But what good is it to tell people?
Yea the fuckin sky is blue. yea shit smells like shit. Fuck it.
3S, MVC2, GGXX, etc. Their time in the spotlight has been over for a long long time.
It doesnât really matter. Everyone here has a community to play what they want with.
the âfgcâ is just people who watch evo on twitch. why do you care about them? they donât actually play the games.
assuming youâre talking about dengeki bunko, yeah that game looks like complete trash and just a money grab.
Iâm really lucky to have a local scene to play stuff like KOF with. But Iâd be lying if I wasnât a bit salty about SF4âs spotlight, especially after Ultra being a barely half-finished, buggy piece of slop and people still just playing playing playing through horrid netcode and atrocious treatment of paying customers.
You guys have to be kidding when youâre telling me that 3s doesnât deserve to be in the spotlight anymore.
Either that, or you play the bullshit I listed.
What good does it to tell people? UHHH not telling people is why this happened, smart guy.
forget it. If you have a passive attitude about shit games taking the spotlight from games that deserve to be at the top of the FGC, you have no reason to even add your two cents. All youâre doing is allowing people to forget about how good these games really are. Yeah, you can keep playing them, but the FGC will never acknowledge them again. All of these scrubs making money off their shit games, thatâll never be you. All of these scrubs winning majors and becoming house hold names that YOU know about, but they have no idea who you are and think youâre a scrub, yeah good job supporting that.
Canât believe you guys would rather support SF4 than want to tear it down.
Itâs like knowing people are being lied to, and doing nothing about it. I will never understand that.
oh and the argument âjust let people play what they wantâ is stupid, because them playing what they want in tournament without saying anything hinders our ability to play what we want in tournament, even though what we play is BETTER and more suited for tournament than what they play. Add a little logic to your emotional compromise, and you might get an intelligent stance.
Iâve never met anyone who decided to play 3s because I shit on their game
If you have an interest in community building for the game it behooves you to be diplomatic. Doesnât mean you have to play sf4 or like it but tearing it down all the time doesnât do anything for you. Just convinces sf4 players who mightâve had an interest in trying 3s that youâre not fun to be around and maybe they shouldnât bother.
Iâve weighed and tried this option, igloobob, I really have man. The SF4 players just DONT CARE about 3s in any way because they are literally unable to learn it. They are not talented/smart enough to play it at high levels. They need these games that allow them to be competitive. I was at the top of my sceneâs SF4 scene and even when I told them THEN that 3s is better, nobody cared. I had enough and I left the scene that highjacked the scene I put so much energy into building.
Our biggest mistake was accepting SF4, something we never did before as an FGC with a shit game.
The remnants of my 3s/CvS2/MvC2 scene now agrees with me, even though they were passive before and allowed the hostile takeover. But you know what? They are still passive when it comes to defaming and telling the truth about what the FGC has become, and that doesnât help 3s at all.
I know in your heart of hearts you guys agree with me and appreciate the passion I have for this game, because you guys share that passion. The difference is you donât want to hurt feelings or be ostracized by a community of scrubs. Why do you care what they think of you? Tell the truth. SF4 sucks and doesnât deserve to be promoted above SF3. MvC3 sucks and doesnât deserve to be promoted above MvC2. SFxT sucks and doesnât deserve to be promoted above CvS2. Divekick sucks and doesnât deserve to be promoted above SF3. From a competitive standpoint, am I saying anything wrong?
âthis is the game we playâ = âAccept the bullshit in these game because there are no alternatives even though there are alternatives, but letâs not talk about that because we donât want to have to learn games that we are literally incapable of playingâ
[Long, badly edited ramble ahead. So sorry]
If you want 3S to be more popular, promote it, as IglooBob said.
In case youâre wondering, there has been no massive reduction in the IQ of humanity since the early 2000s, so you canât say that the current FGC is too dumb to play 3S âat high levelsâ (whatever that is). Hell, Iâd even argue that from a technical standpoint, 3S is a much simpler game than SF4, but there is a lot more to it at high-level play that gets a bit hidden behind the inputs.
Iâd love to tell you how promoting 3rd Strike is done, but since Iâm relatively new to 3S and not part of any US scenes, I donât know any of the logistics behind it. It doesnât help that 90% of the time Iâm an asocial prick who doesnât like to be around people, so I wouldnât know the first thing about spreading the Good News of 3rd Strike.
But somehow, here in the UK weâre organising a rather major tournament for 3S every 3/4 months which has grown from strength to strength over the past year. Hell, as long as you guys promote your tournies within the US you donât even need to worry about a potential language barrier (whereas Gutter Trash had [fortunately English speaking] competitors from France, Sweden and even Kuwait).
Finally, thank you for recognising that we share the passion for 3S that you do. Just like you, it pains me when I see Super Turbo given a chance at Evo, with Tournament of Legends, but 3rd Strike (or Alpha 2/3) isnât given the same opportunity. I also believe that MvC3 sucks donkey cock and should be replaced with MvC2 (or preferably Skullgirls). However I donât think that means that we have to be belligerent when it comes to raising awareness of our games, since that really does nothing but turn people off.
The one thing I can say for sure is that if you want people to play your game:
[list]
[] DO NOT focus on the negatives of the game that theyâre playing right now. This does only one thing: it gives off the sense that you think the time that they invested in the game was wasted. People (obviously) will take that personally, and conflate your attack on the game with an attack on their own being (like Disqus commenter Emezie Okorafor what a bitch)
[] DO talk about whatâs better in your game compared to theirs. Preferably without commenting on whatâs wrong with the game that theyâre playing, like above. So instead of saying: â3rd Strike has very few links, unlike SF4, whose combo system revolves on getting these difficult things downâ, say: â3rd Strike has very few difficult links, so itâs pretty easy to pick up and play. Plus you can cancel out of chained light normals, so hitconfirms are really simple!â
[/list]
The majority of players who currently play in the FGC do not care about 3s, nor will they ever care no matter how much I fluff their egos while promoting 3s.
How do I KNOW this? Simple, they were not part of the FGC before SF4, and they continue to not play 3s today. They came in with the bandwagon of scrubs in 09 who changed the focus of the FGC. Before 09, nobody cared about making money off the FGC because there simply wasnât enough players or player base to constitute companies pouring money into advertising on tournaments or sponsoring players. When the FGC was in its prime, playing the good games, there was a very very small player base compared to what it is today. The reason why today we have such a large FGC is because SF4 and MvC3 opened the doors for these scrubs to become competitive because the skill gaps were reduced thanks to mechanics like Xfactor and Ultras, as well as braindead inputs that restrict your opponentâs options to basically nill (Zero incoming mixups, ambiguous crossups protected by 3 or 4 option selects). These mechanics reduce the actual player skill, and enforce a training mode paradigm where a player can sit in training mode and learn these things and become instantly competitive because all they have to do is score one combo or one knockdown, and their chances of winning the round/match become exceedingly high, even when they are already losing the match by a large margin.
Games now follow an âinstant gratificationâ mentality. 3s is not instantly gratifying, let alone MvC2. Have you seen seasoned MvC3 players try to play MvC2? Itâs a comedy of errors.
3s is not a simpler game than SF4 in any sense. SF4 has the illusion of difficulty with buzzwords like â1 frame linksâ, but are they really that hard? No, they are not because things like plinking exist which makes doing these combos a matter of going into training mode for maybe 10 hours. CvS2 on the other hand had similar low frame links which you could not plink, and were risky to do because you could not guarantee getting them each time. Ultras and Xfactor were added into the game to make them more accessible to scrubs. Thatâs the direction fighting games are going these days because they attract a larger market of gamers, aka gamers who have no experience in fighting games, and who want to be immediately competitive. You cannot do that with 3s. 3s is a much deeper game than SF4 will ever be, thatâs why 3s players can transfer to SF4 and dominate while SF4 players will never be able to have that same immediate domination if they transfer to 3s.
Thatâs why you see shills like Markman on stage at Gamescom basically begging that Tekken 7 have some way to be more âaccessibleâ. You cannot have an accessible game be competitive. The competitive design is compromised to allow mechanics that allow scrubs to excel.
hitconfirms in 3s are not simple. mastering Kenâs c.mk - super hitconfirm is very hard to do. short short super on reaction is very hard to do for SF4 players. They have nothing comparable to this level of difficulty in their game, because their game has options that allow them to mess up hitconfirms and stay safe like FADC, let alone safe uppercutting. These games have given them outs, and have given them ways to dominate without actually beating their opponent and crushing their opponentâs egos.
Why do you think rage is so prevalent in todayâs scene? 3s never generated this type of rage. MvC2 never generated this type of rage. Itâs because in the old games you had a reason to be humble. You understood that the player you lost to has greater skill than you. The reason is when you lose in those games, you know you deserved to lose, and you know why you lost, and you know how you got dominated. When you lose a game in SF4 to crossups you canât see, or a wakeup move that has invincibility and takes off 60% of your health, and sets you up for a crossup you canât see, you didnât deserve to lose. When you lose to a player who has XFactor Vergil and they go Ham and you canât see the incoming mixup, you didnât deserve to lose. But these are the mechanics you support by not standing against them.
How do you not know what high level 3s is? it means competition that is at or approaching the highest levels of players.
I appreciate that you are open to this dialogue.
I know that me talking about how SF4 sucks will insult players. I know saying SF4 sucks will make players hate me. I donât care though. Iâm not here to stroke their hair and tell them that SF4 is a decent game and lie to them about the truth of the matter. When you need to compromise truth for the emotions of others, you are not telling the truth, are you? Youâre trying to lie to get people to join you. My stance is returning integrity to the FGC. I know my stance isnât popular. Of course it isnât, Iâm not in the majority of SF4 players who now dictate that Divekick deserves to be in tournaments over SF3. What tears me apart is seeing people with a true passion for 3s who do not want to tell these players they are wrong for supporting and pushing those games into the limelight while 3s or CvS2 exists.
No one said anything about what 3S âdeservesâ. The game is brilliant and imo deserves a lot more respect than it seems to get.
Eventually youâll realize no one gives a fuck and youâre much better off spending your time doing those things you like, not trying to make everyone else âget itâ.
If what you enjoy is evangelizing 3S well then actually do that.
Actions speak louder than words, if you want 3S to be more popular, play it and play it all over the place all the time.
Show people why 3S is awesome and SF4 is a snoozefest. Bad mouthing other peoplesâ interests looking for support is pathetic.
(bob basically said this oops)
Match up discussions and character specific threads are the future. will you fight for the future?
Iâve already done this. Iâve already compromised my beliefs and joined the SF4 scene and did fairly well in my scene. I brought 3s to every tournament, I tried hosting side tournaments for 3s at every SF4 tournament, I tried hosting 3s and CvS2 tournaments, renting out party rooms only to have the same 3s faces I already knew, attend.
Iâve seen what comes of compromising truth for the feelings of others, and it is nothing. Iâm on fire for 3s. 3s is a huge chunk of my life, and I play it as much as I can as often as I can. I bought a CvS2 arcade and donated it to my local arcade, and it gets no play.
Iâve already done these things. The only thing thatâs left is telling the truth. But if nobody else will tell the truth, of course the fruits of my efforts will be miniscule. Thatâs why I continue to tell the truth about the miserable state of the FGC.
If you donât âput downâ (aka tell the truth) about SF4, how do you expect anyone to see their errors?
The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off. Most people will never get past their emotions and getting pissed off, thatâs just the nature of our world that values their emotions above truth. I accept that. Do you accept that? Are you willing to lose acquaintances who are scrubs, for the sake of 3s?
I even offered a continuously growing pot bonus out of my own pocket, saying that if I win the tournament, I would take the winnings and add them to the pot. The pot started at $100. After 3 tournaments, the entrants actually DECREASED.
Iâve been there and done that. Iâm coming to you guys out of experience, not ignorance. Iâm telling you that this way is the only way the truth will get out.
This is seriously one huge, huge stumbling block for old/poverty games. You can say many things about SF4, but the support resources are excellent. You can find people discussing how to play matchups, complete nicely formatted frame data, hitbox images and so on. You want to know something, you can know it easy.
I like to think itâs evident in the game itself.
Beyond that I donât really care. If people enjoy something I think isnât that great, whatever. I see that every day, everyone does.
You just have to accept youâre the minority and make that minority stronger and deeper.
I think Nickelback is dross. Iâm not going to waste my time trying to tell people who like them that though. Or just sit around bitching about it.
This is why we have so many different groups and communities as people. We find people who we can talk to about what we like. Donât waste your time on things which just make you angry. Youâre poisoning yourself.
Thatâs dope that you donated a CvS2 cab. Unfortunate there isnât a community there for it. THIS IS TRUE LOVE WEâRE MAKINâ.
Being passive only hinders your own scene.
Nickleback is NOT 3s, and there are no tournaments for Nickleback that you used participate in but canât anymore because they donât exist, and donât tell me youâve never said Nickleback sucks.
and yes, It is a damn crying shame that this once prosperous scene I am in that used to LOVE CvS2 and 3s and MvC2 now canât even get 16 players for any of those games.
Being active doesnât mean trying to instigate and harass people for liking other things.
Which is what youâre talking about.
I never said anything about being passive. Just letting people like what they like.
If they want to check something else out, sweet. Being berated doesnât encourage people to listen.
Also, I donât think you know what the word dross means. Let me use a word you know, âsucksâ.
@duckcanoeâ
I think youâre resting too much on this fallacy that someone who happens to play fighting games would play 3s if someone just showed them how superior of a game it is. Certainly we arenât just a bunch of people who have yet to be convinced of the superiority of ST, and I guarantee you there are ST players who would like to preach about how much better it is than 3s. I love that your so enthusiastic about promoting 3s but I think you need to direct it to something more constructive.
yuukis post deserves extra emphasis. Who knows how many people lost their steam trying to learn 3s when they discovered that most 3s strategy discussion is fragmented and unorganized? The few english language wikis out there are incomplete and have a lot of copy pasta from the SRK forums, so likely filled with a great deal of out of date information. 3s players canât afford to hold that attitude that new players need to somehow earn their access to information.