Well if you were meant to have 8 buttons wouldn’t the official Street Fighter 4 machine have 8 buttons. How come all the official Capcom controllers have a 6 button face? These are the SNES controllers made by capcom.
See how there are no shoulder buttons. Now do you seriously think Capcom would release in a million years a 360 controller with only 6 buttons when the standard for all Xbox 360 games is 8 buttons. I mean I know you understand this and are ignoring the real issue, but yeah. Macros are made for casual players, sorry bro you are a casual Street Fighter player, step 1 is accepting that.
You’re still on this even though the official sf4 pads have eight buttons? Not to mention the fact that the way you use your hand/fingers is very, very different between the arcade and controllers.
@ all the crying going on in this thread.
Some of you anti-macro people sound just like the anti-throwing scrubs crying about how cheap throwing is. IMO, all big deal hardcore money tournaments should be played on arcade cabinets to put a stop to all the crying that goes on about console advantages, macros, etc. but I’m sure people would find some reason to cry about that too. Bottom line is, you’re not playing the arcade version, you’re playing on a console, and the macro is contained within the game. Deal with it. If you’re not secure enough in your skills that you get worried about someone using a macro beating you well then, PRACTICE! You have access to the same macros they do, if you choose not to use them because of some made up rules in your head, then that’s on you.
STFU and play the game already!
Realistically speaking, the console version of SF4 is the tournament standard, bypassing the arcade version. So using a three button macro that’s already in the game that we’ve declared a standard is ok, no?
Or are we still going to sit with our thumbs up our ass like it’s still 1991?
Move on already, damn.
Okay guys, since the turbo buttons are on the “official fightstick” from CAPCOM lets go allow them in tournaments too. Right? So now people can reversal shoryu every time on ST, do all the hard-ass frame link combos on every game that previously took mechanical skill.
Yeah, I think this is a WONDERFUL idea.
Seriously though, why do people think that mechanical skill is cheap? If you can’t press 3 buttons, you don’t deserve to do the move. If you don’t want to press 3 buttons, might as well program an AI to fight for you. I have the needed skills to do it, is this allowed at evo? Fuck NO.
Then why is button mapping?
For me, the 3P 3K mapping is essential, it allows me to execute ultras no problem and EX no problem etc… In general, I think that this competitive scene is largely unaware of disabled gamers who want to compete and be good, and it gives us a chance to be on an equal level. I have cerebral palsy and have the use of my left hand only, I do not have full range of motion or dexterity, so the mapping helps me. A lot of my losses against decent comp on 2DF and against my friend SSJSonikku in SF IV have come because lapses of execution, I always figure out ways to compensate for that. Some of the comments below from YieArKungFu i.e. being a casual player because some here prefer macros, is a little insensitive particularly when he/she has no idea what its like for a physically disabled gamer in the competitive scene.
Have you ever seen a guy with no legs try to compete in the NBA?
The difficulty of execution in fighting games is not an unintended effect. If it was then spinning pile driver would not be a 360 motion, it would be a quarter circle or even the same as a normal throw.
In the case of mapping PPP/KKK to buttons in SF4, it is ridiculous because it would effectively give Zangief and only Zangief a dragon punch button. It is no mystery that the lariats have huge hitbox on activation, and the kick lariat in particular will beat just about every ground poke that touches it during its activation.
You might think that this is a stupid example because hitting 3 buttons at the same time should be effortless for a stick player, but then try this example and see what you think:
To get lariat to come out the fastest possible, you have to have your fingers resting on all three of the button type you want before it is time to react and do the lariat to eliminate travel time of your fingers moving into position if they have to and then actually moving downward to hit the buttons (very small but significant added execution time).
Try getting a stick and putting 3 fingers on the kicks, and record ryu to throw fireballs and see your success rate of trying to lariat with this technique, no lifting your fingers to hit the buttons allowed. Even if you are good at doing it, there will likely be times where you will mess up and get a normal and not lariat, this kind of screwup is very significant in a heated match where you are say trying to hit rufus c.fp with a kick lariat on reaction. Not only is there a possibility of error, but because you have three fingers busy with trying to hit lariat as fast as possible, you will be slightly delayed in trying to do something else because of the awkward hand position. Such a wall of text dedicated to these small downsides, but they are what makes it possible for rufus to have c.fp as a usable move (usable as in being an attack that can be in rufus’ advantage to do).
Compare to if you have one button for PPP and one for KKK. Not much forethought is required other than placing a pinky on KKK button. There is no possibility of messing up and getting a normal, and the rest of the fingers are free to freely maneuver with, so Rufus will now be severely limited in his methods of attack in this already difficult matchup.
That’s pretty offensive to me man. are you saying I shouldn’t compete? you’d be very surprised. I’ve played SF 2 since 1992 and you have no idea how much I work to improve my game.
If the tournament allows it, then players should take advantage of it. For people with 6-button sticks, it would put them at a slight disadvantage because there’s always the possibility they might input an EX by accident or something while their opponent can input it perfectly with ease. Its not spoiling the player or anything though. ‘OMG HE ISN’T USING ALL 3 FINGERS SO HE’S CHEATING’. There’s hardly a difference, but if its allowed then what the hell don’t complain and use it. Its not like you’re dishonoring some sort of code or something.
No, go ahead and compete. If you do well, it’s amazing. In fact, that’d be quite heroic for a guy with cerebral palsy to win evo. Just like if a guy with no legs was consistently scoring points in the NBA. We can’t all be good at everything, that’s just the way life is. I don’t expect to do well in the NBA, and I even HAVE legs. A guy without legs may very well do fine if he’s quite good and practiced in basketball in casual games but he’d get destroyed in the NBA. And that’s how it SHOULD be. Life’s unfair.
I think it’s pretty offensive that you think that ceberal palsy has anything to do with this. Having a disability doesn’t mean you should have a 3P or 3K button or any other sort of assistance. This isn’t a basic human right like ramps for people with disabilities to have access to buildings. This is a competition. My execution isn’t as good as many other players, and therefore I DESERVE to mess up. Why? Because these games are as much about dexterity or mechanics as it is about strategy. Where do you draw the line between having a named disorder like cerebral palsy and me, who just has shaky hands and bad dexterity? Don’t I, compared to a player with excellent execution (such as Hayao or Pony), have a “disability”, though to a much much lesser extent?
Not trying to sound mean, but mapping buttons DOES NOT put us on an “equal” level. You want equal? Buy a stick, learn it. It is not that hard. I picked up playing stick on marvel the day before I went to a tourney, I got 3rd. When it came to learning stick, I learned that in practically a few days to get as close as it is to arcade perfect. If its money problems, save 10 bucks a week then go buy yourself a Tekken stick or some shit like that, its only what? 30 dollars for it? And a converter for whatever system you play on, and that is it, no problem right?
God damn, I’m surprised that there are still people who have to button map, especially if its on stick, fuck that.
Hey thanks for addressing my point guys.
By all means, keep attacking the people who just want to keep playing though, go ahead and force them to archaic standards.
I would agree that this is truly intentional save for the fact that I can point to another genre of games that are competitive that have many games on consoles that feature interface design choices that render certain actions physically impossible to do because of the layout.
I cannot count how many console shooters have left-handed (usually called southpaw) layouts that make it all but impossible to move and reload, swap weapons or jump at the same time because the asshat who made the controls decided not to look at the damned controller for five seconds when they made the presets. What’s worse is that unlike fighting games which all seem to support full button mapping, most of these console shooters do not.
The most recent offender is Killzone 2:http://omploader.org/vMTZ0cg
The two left handed presets are pretty much useless it’s the only reason I refuse to buy the game at this point. I can put in three hours pushing my right hand to it’s absolute limits with less pain playing SF4 than I had trying to soldier through the crappy ass southpaw layouts in games like Gears of War, and COD 4 for even half an hour!
I have very little respect for arbitrary button mapping choices that make a move harder to do just because it is harder (or in the case of my shooter example next to physically impossible) for the human hand to do. Especially when the mapping is so bad that you can tell who ever made it did not even look at the controller when they made it. Making a move so powerful that the dev team feels like they need to introduce a physical barrier to actually performing the move just means that the move is over powered and broken. It does not make the physical barrier (Which in the case of PPP/KKK moves in SF is minimal compared to examples in other games.) a good thing at all.
Finally everyone, and I mean everyone will fuck up even the simplest moves sometimes. That you will fuck up the lariat sometimes does not really mean that having the macro will make you never fuck up the move ever. You might press a button too lightly or too early etc.
Anotak to answer your question, no you don’t have a disability. You can improve your ability to hit buttons with multiple fingers or whatever, I cannot, so therefore I need the mapping. So I’m sorry that you are offended that I think that CP has anything to do with the button map thing but in my case it does. There is a limit to how far my dexterity goes but I consistently try to do things to improve it, and entering the competitive scene I do realize how much I suck but I’m always practicing and learning from mistakes. I’m not exactly out here to win a tournament at this point, just to play better players and hopefully becoming better myself. Hell, charge characters are my weakness and I’m learning Dictator in SF IV right now cuz he has potential and playing on 2DF and the like has inspired me to go far beyond my limits. Soulbankai, I have a Hori FS 2 stick, I can use it but I want to modify it. If I may ask, what disability do you have?
comparing 360s to 3P/K mapping is retarded. also this thread.
macro does not equal hotkey, kthxbye
Pad players have a lot of trouble with 3x button presses so I think it’s only fair they should have the same access to it that a stick player does. It doesn’t change the way the game is played, so I feel like it should be legal. The game should be about 2 players and their minds, not about their ability to press certain buttons at the same time. So the less execution to mess a match up the better IMO.
I lost a match at a tournament because I didn’t have a PPP button in SF4. Got cr.HP instead of Ultra.
that’s a big part of SF. when the pressure is mounting on you, can you still execute what you need to? it does change the way the game is played significantly, because even the best players in the world will crack under pressure, some more than others. They’ll miss that RC, karathrow, ultra, etc. stick or not, nobody should be able to pass that test of resiliency for free.
remember when you plug in your ps3 and 360 controller and turn the game on and you automatically are set to have a 3p/3k button?
remember when you plug in the official madcatz sticks and the same thing happens?
me to.
-____________________- @ this topic
I don’t know if it’s been posted yet, as I was skimming through the thread reading people going red in the face, but someone mentioned that the TE fightstick was released for the game so people would use that instead of pads.
But taking a look at this picture:
http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2009/features/hardware/street-fighter-stick-roundup/0001.jpg
Shows that the official SFIV fightstick, sanctioned by Capcom, has the PPP and KKK buttons mapped by default.
Food for thought?