2015 UMVC3 SRK Tier/Theory Discussion. 7/10 First Page Tumblr: Power of snapback, Future power teams

[AceKillah]

Doom has the best button j.:s: even if it trades he still gets his easy combo off it. That alone makes him top 3.

[serpentaurus]

So basically Thor is Cell with no androids absorbed got ya

no, he is a blondie cause he absorbed #18.

[OMG_its_a_duck]

I wonder if AceKillah has lost the ability to be serious thanks to this thread.

[Eskills]

Doom has the best button j.:s: even if it trades he still gets his easy combo off it. That alone makes him top 3.

With Dante all you need is reverb, fireworks, st. m, st. h, weasel shot, and stinger.
He has a fucking sword, if you are spacing yourself properly the speed shouldn’t matter.

And I forgot Doom gets a free pass because of footdive.

There goes those Top 3 again. Thor/Strange/Doom

[ThatJollyOlBastid]

Tier threads are known for being the biggest cause of testicular cancer in the fighting game scene.

[DevilJin_01]

I don’t know if you’re serious or not, but why do people act like this is SF and footsies take precedent over everything else?

At some point, Dante will make you block something and considering his tools, he has plenty of options (aside from 1 frame ground throw, boo hoo) to open you up. It’s like people forget that stupid sword normal hitboxes, frame traps and assists exist.

Spencer’s got what, a 5-6 frame cr. L. But how many times am I just going to open someone up by doing dash up cr. L when they’re not in recovery frames?

I mean, hell, just watch Yipes play. He throws out more st. Ls and st. Ms than I see cr. Ls. Is he thinking that he’s actually going to catch you not blocking at all? No… he’s trying to make you block so that he can actually apply pressure.

Basically. The game is more projectile heavy than MVC2 was so straight normal utility is not quite as important. Once you flood the screen up normals don’t really matter too much anymore. Hence why Doom will further and further become a near assist only character while Dante will rise up and find more prominence fighting the flood. Which that’s not really a problem since he can get lucky with XF2/3 sometimes…but against V.Joe and Morri Doom that’s not really going to happen. Dante’s ability to fight rushdown characters is still solid if your movement usage of his special moves is solid.

Spencer’s c.L is only one frame faster than Dante’s.

Most of the stuff that people are bringing up about Dante are the exactly same problems he had in Vanilla and he was still surely top 5 in that game. I guess invincible assists did that good of a job covering his huge flaws in the neutral.

[undertheicefloe]

Haggar: Sadly he doesn’t quite break top 15 on my list. He doesn’t break top 30 on most. It’s really hard to understand this character if you haven’t played versus a good one. Haggar has an array of terrible matchups, but his support value with the only invulnerable assist in the game, terrifying round start, and one of the strongest abilities to run through a team leave him as an extremely strong and incredibly underrated character. With a lock down assist Haggar has a very terrifying mixup between more options than you can count including multiple throws, lows, and fuzzy guards that all come at different timings and with different setups. His incoming mixup is equally strong with the right assists to back it up, and to top it all off he kills off of everything. He also has the potential for like 3 consecutive seconds of invincibility and shuts out a couple top characters surprisingly well. I want to put him higher but hopefully some of the better Haggar players will show it for me in the future.

I think this is a really good point and it kind of shows the shame of Haggar for me - in any other game, he’d be one of the most fun grappler characters ever designed. He just has SO MUCH good, nasty stuff that most players don’t use because pipe is so good but seriously - a slow projectile assist + Hoodlum M + having Rapid Fire Fists to keep him safe in case somebody pressed a button = scary as shit. If you get put into blockstun by a good Haggar, there’s no reason why you shouldn’t die. Unfortunately, in this game his terrible matchups are just SO terrible because people can put so many obstacles on the screen that he can/t navigate and / or evade him so easily that it actually almost invalidates him as a character.

[phantasy]

yeah i picked up qcbH xx devil trigger from mihe, who is the best dante player

[Marvelo]

People that ACTUALLY think Dante is bad are severely misinformed. Dante also beats Doom 1v1. At least 6-4 matchup. Dante only has a couple bad matchups per say like Viper(This is really the only true bad one), Ammy, and maybe Wolverine. Besides that he beats everyone else or goes even 1v1. Even Vergil I think loses to Dante when coupled with Vajra IMO. Unless he has missiles…

With Vajra his BNB off a j.H is around 825K while building higher than average meter. How is that low damage?

People who say he’s easy to block aren’t fighting good Dante’s. My Weasel Shot, call Strider, teleport, cross up j.M is blocked only 10% of the time. That shit is so free.

[tab]

there’s one key thing i feel that makes doom better than dante- the situations in which they will be on point. since they’re both ‘assist characters’ essentially more often than not you’re going to find them with no or one assist. which brings into the question, ‘who is more self-sufficient without assists/with one assist?’ to me, the answer is doom due to the nature of how his tools work and his movement type (air movement that is easily self-covered). and the way dante’s offense works vs. doom’s really puts me in favor of doom. from what i understand, dante’s offense works in putting you in blockstun via his normals and then calling assist to teleport, and continuously putting you in blockstun as to do assist-based mixups.depending on where you are, he probably gets like one or two mixups per use of assists and then he’s gotta start with the pressure again. doom’s offense is different- when he gets in, he’s doing a trijump game more or less with the throw integrated into that. the assist purpose for him is to begin his offense, which is somewhat self-sustaining in regards to mixups.

plus he provides tac infinites and a way to cover characters DHCing which is something that dante unfortunately can’t (acid rain is ok sometimes for this though)

also there’s the whole random factor thanks to his output, buttons (if top players can’t block those ambiguous footdives or j.ms can you? being unable to approach him from that angle and being able to do ambiguous safe mixups is pretty sweet regardless of how people want to underplay the move.)

idk about being bad though, that’s a different argument entirely. i think he’s alright for whatever reason, and i think danke’s tier list explanation beliefs on him seems about right.

i do think dante backed with two assists is better than doom backed with two assists though. he makes use of them better than doom and is probably more fit for that first character position.

[DevilJin_01]

People that ACTUALLY think Dante is bad are severely misinformed. Dante also beats Doom 1v1. At least 6-4 matchup. Dante only has a couple bad matchups per say like Viper(This is really the only true bad one), Ammy, and maybe Wolverine. Besides that he beats everyone else or goes even 1v1. Even Vergil I think loses to Dante when coupled with Vajra IMO. Unless he has missiles…

With Vajra his BNB off a j.H is around 825K while building higher than average meter. How is that low damage?

People who say he’s easy to block aren’t fighting good Dante’s. My Weasel Shot, call Strider, teleport, cross up j.M is blocked only 10% of the time. That shit is so free.

Yeah the only chance you have to block Dante on the ground is killed by most good assists. I’ve seen Yipes tear people up in casuals with freaking rapid slash assist. LOL. Which is not terribly surprising since Dante is one of the better character at putting hit boxes in front of and moving behind it to set shit up.

I’m not sure what he was getting at with not being able to cover assists since most of Dante’s specials involve moves that take up a huge area of the screen or are active for a very long time. Coupled with Stinger which is basically a jump cancellable mid hitting version of Sent’s c.M without the armor (projectile absorbing and all).

I mainly concern strength on point with being able to control and fight off neutral and Dante with the right assists (even without them) just does that better than Doom. Running forward and pressing on shit works sometimes with Doom…but not often enough and not in enough matchups to really say so. If everyone played Morri/Doom, Doom would never get a chance to regularly fight in a meaningful way whereas Dante would still be able to.

[Robotic]

DT solves all of Dante’s problems. If only Doom could shoot dat purple shit.

[KJunk]

Here’s my #1 beef with Dante - his cr.L doesn’t hit a Morrigan who is holding back (because she will be floatwalking away). When will she be holding back? When she thought you were going high, but you actually wanted to go low with cr.L.

Fucking fucks.

[HyperShieldSlash]

Dante is ass.

[The_Duke]

Here’s my #1 beef with Dante - his cr.L doesn’t hit a Morrigan who is holding back (because she will be floatwalking away). When will she be holding back? When she thought you were going high, but you actually wanted to go low with cr.L.

Fucking fucks.

Fuck that bitch (in a bad way)

[DevilJin_01]

Here’s my #1 beef with Dante - his cr.L doesn’t hit a Morrigan who is holding back (because she will be floatwalking away). When will she be holding back? When she thought you were going high, but you actually wanted to go low with cr.L.

Fucking fucks.

Yeah that’s an issue he’s had with her and Storm for a while. Capcom decided not to fix it for whatever reason. That’s not even the worst of it really since none of his air dash normals can hit a crouching Morri either. They’ll still hit Storm but he only has teleport for actual high low against her. If you count her standing animation it’s more like you can only really do j.S/hammer overheads or box dash. You pretty much are stuck to special move or assist crossups for actual mix ups against her. I’ll still take plus a much stronger projectile game, movement and Devil Trigger over just Morrigan laughing at Doom’s attempts to get in.

[phantasy]

[media=youtube]3aR7TRLilqE[/media]

Dante beats morrigan and doom so he is top 2

[evilweevle]

Woah now, I think we are taking the “Dante being ass” thing a bit too far.

This thing about his damage being bad needs to just die already.

.

it kinda is though…

[Marvelo]

[media=youtube]3aR7TRLilqE[/media]

Dante beats morrigan and doom so he is top 2

Ugh. I hate seeing that match. I played on my friends Chunli stick which was double springed or some shit. I was dropping everything…

But whatever, I won. No beef.

EDIT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=3aR7TRLilqE#t=599s

That’s the mixup I mentioned. Also, I dropped the combo for some unknown reason. Fucking ChunLi Sticks…

[The_Co-Jones]

It’s not so hard to picture the fact that almost every character with a top 5 assist sucks on point.

Sentinel
Doom
Dante
Strider?
Iron Man