Which assists provide strong lockdown while also being good in the neutral? I know walmart, drooooooooooooooooooooooooooones, hiding missiles, and Spardan Corridor, but are others as good?
2015 UMVC3 SRK Tier/Theory Discussion. 7/10 First Page Tumblr: Power of snapback, Future power teams
Blue jizz lazer, snowball cannon, and idlikesomepoundcake are pretty solid assists in the neutral and for lockdown
Man what happened when I was gone and where did all the good trolls go, this guy isnât funny 
Question. Its highly regarded that Viper/Dante/Strider is the theory best team in the game. Everyone says (enough people) but why exactly? It seems you have to play flawlessly with it. No beam to clear shit, redundant axis coverage, low damage (for viper). thoughts?
WellâŚitâs more like one of the theory best teams in the game. There isnât really just one. Iâll probably do a blog soon on what I believe are the possible end game teams any way. Like endest of game.
I would say the main issue with the team ATM is that you pretty much have to stick to high damage bnbs that donât involve throws or burn XF in order to do big damage. The team is very early Ultimate as far as ways to TOD quickly. Drew Grimey already brought up one of the big issues as far as damage conversion with the team where youâre just not going to kill people off a throw with that team. Which can be a huge issueâŚbut weâve seen teams that can win very consistently that donât get TODâs off throws so I donât think thatâs the hugest issue either.
Viper can do near 900k with one or no meter if she lands a ground hit so damage off ground hits isnât much an issue. Thatâs also before considering youâre playing Viper who will hit the opponent with shit to bring their health down before then. If Spencer or Taskmaster gets touched by a few projectiles they should be able to down in one shot off a ground hit.
Past thatâŚViper doesnât really need a beam assist. Once you learn laser and seismo FADC that pretty much covers the function of a beam assist since you then basically turn Viper into a walking beam assist that can convert off those things at closer ranges into combos. You can only call a beam assist but so much any way. Vajra involved can help keep the opponent in a spot where you can lock them down with jam session which starts up pretty fast. Pretty much the whole goal of the team is to get the opponent locked down with jam session because once you do thatâŚit should be pretty curtains especially if theyâre towards the corner.
The main power behind the team is mash buttons proof unblockable, hard to blockable and guard break setups once you kill the first character in the corner. So the ultimate theory past the screen coverage is that once you kill a character in the cornerâŚthe rest of team should crumble pretty fast unless Sentinel or Phoenix is in there somewhere.
what are these guard breaks you speak of with the team? i have some filthy shit with the team but donât employ these guard breaks at all. Also thats kind of what I figured. once I learned how to perfectly FADC you really can exert your will quite a bit. the throw damage isnât that bad since you can just carry them to the carry, snap in a problem and get a guaranteed hit but just ADDF (call session) focus. The timing is perfect and there is nothing not even pushblocking that can save them from it.
But snowball cannon doesnât cover the neutral that well! Not as well as blue jizz laser, or drooooooooooooooooooooones
Jam Session doesnât give Viper true unblockables vs airdash/double jump characters. Only versus characters with poor aerial mobility.
I still think itâs one of the strongest teams in the game in theory and the most optimized team for the character thatâs strongest on paper. Dante/Strider is just a very potent shell for a lot of top tier characters period. It just has the same issue Vergil/Strider also does, where Vergil needs to spend XFactor to confirm off Vajra, Dante has to spend XFactor to actually kill with that team due to Legion doing shit damage as DHC. And you are left with anchor Strider with no XFactor who as decent as he is matchup wise, he needs 5-6 clean hits to land the comeback.
on snapback there is literally nothing you can do about the jam session unblockable. you have to either take the hit or get focused.
Well Marlin Pie has been doing basic almost assistless guard break shit for a while. Where you just meaty j.M, pause air dash forward with plink H~M that option selects into a throw if they pushblock the j.M.
With Jam Session you should be able to replace the meaty j.M with just waiting for them to pushblock jam session then do the same thing. Or you can add your own shit in etc. depending on how they pushblock. Essentially once people optimize it there should be plenty of ways to put people in extremely hard to escape situations regardless if its unblockable or not.
K Beast tends to drop the unblockable set up a lot also or the opponent purposely gets themselves hit during the unblockable. Which will lend preference towards guard breaks and hard to blockables off it in the future IMO.
If they get hit by it you can just confirm off it, then do the ender with vajra then snapback and repeat. It builds the meter by itself to continue this. on snapback with the timing I found it seems that its not possible to avoid the unblockable at all barring air invul supers
What specifically about the snapback makes the unblockable stronger?
I really donât think itâs widely held that itâs the best team because there are plenty of people who donât think highly of Viper or Strider.
If you DO think Viperâs one of the best, there is a lot of synergy in the line-up and you get a ton of value out of each character where theyâre played. You get Jam Session, one of the best assists in the game. You get a HAM anchor. You get a point character who can run the table with nasty setups on incoming characters.
Jam Session and Vajra seem like redundant anti-air for Viper but in practice you use them differently. Vajra is better at full screen against people controlling you. Jam Session is better to help you control others. And donât worry about Viperâs damage.
A beam assist lets Viper play more aggressively, but her tools are better for control. x / Dante / Strider is all about control. Hell, watch Zero/Dante/Strider. Itâs the same thing but itâs Zero controlling you from the air instead of Viper from the ground.
Replace safe seismos and EX Seismo with buster cancels and stupid normals. Replace Viperâs unblockable setups on incoming characters with Zeroâs 4+ mix-ups in a row. Same shit, different point characters.
Nope. Thatâs the case for Firebrandâs snap setup. But Viperâs unblockable is height dependent, and wonât hit people directly on incoming. Meaning there is no timing thatâs actually legit vs double jump. Iâve messed with Jam Session unblockables enough, and you can escape out of them, I know several ways out of my own Task setups(granted a lot require XFactor or meter, but the stuff isnât guaranteed).
I hate people who simplify Jam Session to being just an âanti airâ. Jam Session splits the screen in half, locks down for half a Marvel second for 3 high/lows to hit you, pushes you back for stupider zoning options. Itâs one of the strongest assists period, and the only thing keeping it fair is scaling, but then you have Zero.
Yeah sheâs not really a character thatâs popular with people outside of forum theorists or tourney theorists like Marlin or K Beast. Everyone else is just people who like the character and it doesnât help that sheâs not a very easy character to use online and grind matches with. You wonât see anyone regularly doing FGTV online session with her to grind like PR Rog because you will drop something or get a laser when you donât want and die. She doesnât really add much support outside of invincible CC, overhead, OTG and XF durp also. Whereas switching Magneto into second spot gives you alright THC, probably going on the best beam assist and some solid DHCâs.
She has a lot of ability to disrespect things that are normally strong like normals and generally just turn herself into a safe wall of offense once she gets going. Itâs just you could play Zero/Dante/Strider and just abuse big normals until something good happens. Itâll take a while for people to see Viper + shell as truly powerful as other top tier + shell.
Morrigan is the best combination of projectile spam + normals but getting people to play Viper at top level play is some hella convincing. Mainly since youâre basically telling them to play a character that is all projectiles and hyper armor when theyâre very much used to having normals to swing around until a match ends. Although Viper at least has the bare minimum for footsies which is decent ranged crouch normal, strong plink dash and air throw/ground throw into big damage/TOD. Her conversion abilities for throw into TOD is above Zero or Morrigan which is significant.
She really has better normals than people give her credit for especially combined with her projectile/hyper armor tool set.
on snapback you can ADDF forward all the way into the corner without them switching sides due to it not being a body there. you ADDF while calling Jam session so by the time they come out the JS frames coencide with then they will fall in. The height at which they fall in is perfect for landing a unblockable. If they block you get 825k, if they donât you SJ and do step kicks to bring em down and then snap them back out because they canât avoid it anyway and you canât kill. Iâve been playing with and its retarded. you can pretty much end a game off of a grab now.
Seriously go into training and try this. Its legitimate.
Ah so you basically just go for Firebrand team cycle shit until someone dies. Thatâs why I like having someone like Strange or Doom in the middle so you can get TAC infinite or FoF loops off the launch after doing big damage. Could be a lot of ways to end a team with that type of set up.
Weâre still way too far to be claiming any team to be the best. Heck this new guardbreak tech could easily cause a shift in teams. Not letting people play after the first kill? yes please. And even then, I still wouldnât consider it the best team in the current meta without a strong TAC infinite.
As for viper unblockables, it isnât just characters with air mobility in terms of double jumps and air dashes, itâs anybody who can find a way to halt/alter their air state enough to avoid the attack. Frank could do tools L/M, Haggar could do aerial command throws, etc. This leaves you prone to throws of course, but Iâd much rather have a 50-50 situation than an unblockable one.
Its an option, but regardless they are taking damage and if they do get hit Vipers dumb ass meter gain just says fuck you lets try this again lol. I was beginning to think Viper/Jam was overrated as a segway to the unblockable but with this it makes her incredibly scary since you can get out of strider if you time a AG right. With this setup it doesnât matter what you do if you execute it properly. You can end a match off a throw if you donât fuck up.
I donât think you guys are completely understanding this. It is no escape. The JS is already there when they come out. you have a few frames if that to do anything.
I see this argument so often and itâs just wrong. This is one of those false situations that shouldnât happen if youâre actually converting your combos and finishing your plate. If you popped X-Factor with Dante, Strider should have fewer characters to kill and your team should have plenty of meter to kill with.
Strider only needs Meter AND X-Factor if the rest of your team got blown up. If you waste your X-Factor AND your meter AND your first 2 characters, Striderâs damage is not your problem.
No character is a threat with no meter and no x-factor against 3 characters. Not even Vergil.
If youâre using ALL of your resources outside of combos (power-up supers, making stuff safe, punishing stuff, whatever), you should have -something- to show for it, or youâre just getting horribly outplayed.
Hey youâre preaching to the choir here, I think itâs the best assist in the game.