Thanks for confirming it works with Haggar with Iron Man THC, my PS3 is broken so I can’t test it myself and I need more ham in my diet.
2015 UMVC3 SRK Tier/Theory Discussion. 7/10 First Page Tumblr: Power of snapback, Future power teams
Quick question guys.
Im a firm believer that Viper is top tier, solely because she hits hard as fuck and everything she does is invincible as fuck. However, some of my friends/players in my community think that Im being too much of a theory player instead of someone who actually plays.
I think that theory fighting is effective in a game like this because of x-factor being dumb and tournament results don’t really say much about the worth of a character, especially when characters like Ironfist and Storm won a tournament. The question I want to ask you guys is, when do people draw the line of theory fighting and actual realistic play? Viper really hasn’t won anything outside of a few Curleh’s, but people say she is a good character. Are people doing too much theory fighting?
Also, Imma start contributing more to this forum. Im pretty fucking dominant in my area. There are a few other good players here, but all in all, I can pretty much play anybody and do somewhat decently in tournament. So I submit to you a request to give me a theory team to play every 2 weeks. I might start with Hawkeye/Storm/Dante from the community team development thread, but maybe this thread will give me something else to work with that you guys want me to try. shrug
I think this will be good because I think its best to try theories out that you guys come up with (along with my theories), and it will endorse my local stream and get more followers for our growing scene. Sidenote: Don’t expect pro shit from Marvel, but our scene is nonetheless growing. We have all different types of gameplay styles, and surprisingly alot of character variety.
Our bi-weekly ranbat is this weekend. Idk if Im going or not because it is my birthday weekend, but just in case I do go, if you guys want to, give me a team to work with and I’ll try it out in training mode, casuals and tournament (probably until grand finals if I make it). This will be good not only for me and my scene, but for this thread in general, IMO.
Let me know what you think.
Thor/Strange/Doom
Go.
Dizzy just remind your buds that viper has won AND placed in more big events than zero has :smokin:
Im assuming Thor (Mighty Spark)/Strange (Bolts)/Doom (Missiles)?
Yessir.
when it comes to results , to me it is like this
iron fist and storm, kusoru, etc have won a few times -> okay, they can win… but maybe the field didn’t have good knowledge of the matchup, and maybe the pilot was just an unbelievable player
widespread success with wolv, magneto, doom, vergil (not necessarily on the same team) -> proof that these guys are extremely strong
widespread success with wesker and spencer but diminishing pretty hard -> strong when everyone was at a more basic level; spencer could be argued as still strong but he’s not quite as successful as his evo2012 showing nowadays
not a lot of widespread success with zero, dante, viper, etc -> i wouldn’t consider this as proof against my tier theory but it is unfortunate that there is not a lot of proof yet. however, i have seen certain players play (not in big tourneys) and the potential of these characters are pretty set in my mind due to that.
basically, i think results are good for solidifying assumptions in terms of character success, but when there aren’t that many excellent players of the lesser played top tiers, it’s harder to solidify assumptions of characters not doing well
That is pure confirmation bias for points 2 and 3.
Its impossible to tier without bias unless you’re using a matchup chart formed by an extremely large sample size simply because where there is opinion there is bias.
I said that it was confirmation bias not that it’s possible for bias to not exist. Obviously you would need to data mine with larger samples for better results.
Especially since we’re using a first to 2/3 format when matchups charts are formed from high level races to 10.
Oh I’m sorry misunderstanding.
I need to go to sleep, even though its only 3:21 in the afternoon
Vipers unblockable doesnt work with meaty jam session. You can push block to stay above it on incoming. You have to let them drop slightly for it to work. This is why there isnt a good timing against characters with double jumps or modoks flight because with meaty jam session they can push block out and if its delayed jam session they are definitely too high leaving only throw setups in both cases. Those are good options to have but its definitely not guaranteed.
Vipers unblockables are great, especially against characters without good air options but they are only one reason she is good and not free on the entire cast in all situations.
IDK, I set the dummy to jump, and to AD out of the setup and they got caught both times…I’ll perhaps make a vid. Or maybe not and jsut stsfn since everything gets broken down so fast nowadays.
I know how the setups work. Since Viper’s FA + Taskmaster’s headbutt have the same range and height. Trust me there are ways out and it’s extremely hard to setup a Jam Session unblockable vs incoming characters with air mobility due to what Caveman said. Focus Attack does not hit characters on incoming.
What I meant by double jumps is simply double jumping out in incoming, since it’s actually really hard to time a Jam Session on incoming(possible with snap, other kills not feasible due to corpse hopping + the time you kill the opponent at). You can also pushblock and fly/double jump out. Easiest way to see if your setup is fool proof or not is record it and try it vs yourself, or versus an comp AI with a double jump.
The THC setups are superior but those aren’t perfect either.
When testing setups dont trust the training mode dummy. Record it and try to find ways out yourself. The advancing guard option in practice mode is especially misleading because it always does it as soon as possible. First real humans dont do that and second you can blow up a lot of setups with good use of blocking.
I meant using the setups vs a AI in training mode, set to normal/hard etc. AI’s with double jump will always double jump frame 1 on incoming unless you have a projectile out like Task H arrows.
Also the easiest way to learn that your Jam Session setup is not a true setup is if they are blocking the Jam Session while they are standing.
Most of the top tiers haven’t won much major wise. It’s only recently that top players have really been adding Vergil in to buff up the DHC and TOD support for their team.
Viper is top tier. I dunno about number one in the game as a point character, but you pretty much have to be lying to yourself to consider her anything below top tier. She has too much potential to blow up all of the stuff people complain about in this game any ways. If there’s something you hate that some character does in this game…Viper usually has an answer to it with, without meter or with an appropriate assist.
Everything is really high damage in this game so it’s more important to control the neutral above how much damage you do. Viper is that great mix of controlling neutral and damage output like Zero that you need to get things popping. Especially with her incoming mix up shit. Having the ability to negate normal mix ups and one hit high priority attacks with focus is extremely strong. Seismos once they are placed more in the neutral will allow her to control the screen in ways that we’ve already seen Morrigan, Magneto and Zero do so far soon enough.
Basics are all there outside of theory any ways.
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Strong high/low mix ups with potential for strong left/rights with assists at closer range.
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Fast normals at close range that set up frame traps.
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Ground and air throws that always can convert into standard combos or TAC’s. Throws are important in this game because they beat a shit ton of normals and can lead to dead characters. Viepr may not have the most absolute gdlk air or ground normals but she can still throw you out of them into “you might or will be dead”. Morrigan is gdlk but she can’t grab you into TOD at the start of the round and can’t do TAC’s off grabs either. She needs 2 meters to TOD off her throws with someone like Vergil.
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At least one decent ranged crouch normal for setting up footsies into damage.
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A general projectile game for flooding up the screen (very important now that there’s shit all over the screen).
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Defensive options. EX seismo (you only get one at start…but hey it’s there), focus which allows you to not be put in hit stun and EX thunder knuckle which is also invincible for 10 frames and goes through most standard projectiles there after. Focus especially is her most underused tool for disregarding the durp in Marvel and being able to be hit and still not get put in a combo in this game is pretty huge. It’s almost like playing a pixie version of the Hulk against a lot of the cast.
Granted you have to be on the ground to enact most of that…but staying on the ground keeps you from having to deal with a lot of dumb mix up situations also. Add an AA assists and a couple characters in the back that on point are good at dealing with SJ height stuff…and you can add theory from there.
you are correct. the shitty record of the cpu failed me lol. Still it works on at least half the cast I’m guessing if not more. Gonna go in the lab and see who exactly this works 100% on so I know who to abuse it on.
Characters the setup works on 100%
Nem, Firebrand, phoenix wright, chris, arthur, frank west, derpgil, wesker, zero, ryu, felicia, spencer, akuma, hsien ko, haggar, ammy, ghost rider, hawkeye
strange, iron fist, deadpool, logan, x23, spiderman, hulk, she hulk, taskmaster
Works is the fuck up their timing slightly
Nova
Gets raped by AD
everyone else
Still there are some pretty grimy things you can do if they get privy to it and start AD out every time. fake a focus and you get a free combo. Its def a tool worth having but not as gamebreaking as I thought. Works foolproof on roughly 3/5 of the cast and makes the other 2/5 commit to something or die. Very useful regardless. If someone is running a team with 2 of the ones it works 100% on you are kind of in a very bad spot.
Oh well. Just gonna have to put everyone else in guard breaks/hard to blockables.