Zero might have problems with MorriDoom, but not with Rushdown characters. His normals + Buster keep a lot of rushdown characters in check.
The team itself is pretty bad. No top assist to complete the team leaves the 3 characters fighting pretty much on their own (best assist would be Rapid Slash). As Jolly said, drop either Viper or Zero, put an assist that complements Vergil and the other character and you have a great team. Zero/Vergil is actually a very nice duo and were even consider “BFs” at the beginning of Ultimate. Vergil can get pickups with Ryuenjin assist from ground throw and Zero can covert from air throws with rapid slash. Both have safe DHCs and can TOD. You also have two really nice CCs to work with.
So, best possible teams:
Viper-y/Vergil-y/Strider-y
Zero-a/Vergil-y/Strider-y
Zero-a/Vergil-y/Doom-b
Viper-y/Zero-a/Doom-a or Dante-a
[Very good team, but you don’t have Jam Session which is Zero’s best assist and also arguably Viper’s best too. Plasma Beam allows Viper and Zero to get in easier than Jam Session, but Jam Session makes opponents struggle more with running away. Both Viper and Zero can kill of any random Jam Session hit or Plasma Beam confirm, so scaling shouldn’t matter.]
I think Vergil/Strider is the most overrated duo in the game. The only reason people even considered it good is because it was the first team Chris G struggled against. That was back when if you killed Morrigan, you beat Chris G so XF to kill was fine. Also Chris wasn’t used to dealing with the assist. Try that against Chris G now, or any other player who is competent with all 3 of their characters and you’re going to get bopped. Padtrick is the only player who has had any type of success with the pair anyway. I can name at least 10 other assists that aid Vergil better, and I can name at least 10 characters that benefit from Vajra more than he does.
Thanks for the reply. I use to play mvc2 and really loved rush down but mvc3 and umvc3 gave me the longest period of character/team crisis. I really like vergil, viper, Dante, zero for a long time but all the decent team with them have good support characters (doom, mag, strider) that I know are valuable to a team but don’t like individually.
Vergil is really simple to play and have I feel really stylish combos, same with dante (while he’s damage left much to be desired). Zero I think is a really top tier character but to me he somehow feel kinda slow. viper I think is a great character individually but bring nothing to any team (crappy assist, poor dhc, not safe incoming super, etc.) , but god damn it feel good to seismo and feint in people’s face all day lol
that’s why I came up with this team, not because I think its a end game team but because it have my favorite characters in it, which make me want to practice, play and win with it. I struggle with wanting to use it for a long time for the obvious reason I list in the first post, but I love those characters.
I like this thread but you guys always argue about who’s top tier in a team base game, so I would like to start off the discussion in the new thread with just my favorite indulgence team. I know the title say tier thread, but i think we should rate team tiers now and that’s why I just join the discussion now.
It’s hard to rate team tiers ATM because there’s so many more viable teams than there were in MVC2. You can like run off with a list of good teams but it would take forever to tier them based on that. That’s why we just settle for who is strongest on point and who is strongest on support. Put characters together based on that and you have a really strong team from there. The game will get more matchup based as time goes on also (just like MVC2 did) so even if you find the MSP of the game…there’s probably some team that counters it unless you’re like Yipes or J.Wong good to overcome the counters consistently.
Drew Grimey got top 16 at Evo with Viper/Vergil/Strider and also swept through the first round of the AfterShock Cali team tourney with that team.
About 20 minutes in starting.
[media=youtube]FgXPoQXBf0Y[/media]
Strider assist is just very strong with characters that can move behind you quickly because they make it a bit harder to footsie and maneuver around the assist correctly. The lack of ability to lock down and the fact that it puts Strider’s body out there can make the assist a liability. I do agree that Vergil/Strider is a bit overrated…but it’s fast and it works and that’s usually good enough in this game.
It’s probably the ultimate theory blow up theory team that’s currently out or was recently used by a top player. If you don’t have shit tight with your theory team it will blow it up.
my favorite vergil point team is vergil(rapid slash)/Dante(ice)/Strider(vyjara, vijara… teleport kick assist lol). But it not really a vergil team but focus all on dante. Once vergil power up, dante can really wreck shop with strider assist and tod dhc behind him in vergil.
I think the team scrub for this game is wesker/vergil/strider haha, if i have to play on pad I just use that team and its pretty easy fun. I actually consider maining that team bust wesker have poor dhc options into vergil.
vergil/doom/strider - ugh doom… i hate using doom… lol but really I don’t like the vergil/doom pairing even though chris g and nerd josh had success with it. doom is just a assist to me. I rather have dante than doom. What do you think about vergil/doom pairing?
haha that’s what my friend told me when i told he about that team , in fact he was like " that team is shit ( instead of “the shit”, lol)
I like the zero/vergil together alot for the same reasons you said ( ryujin combo extension for vergil and throw pick up for zero). I guess I would say the best assist would be strider. Marn seem to be doing really good with that team. But I think strider assist would not be such as a big as thread once people figure out how to avoid it. It does have problem tracking sometime, and it the opponent move forward, it whiffs.
I like viper/vergil when i watch drewgrimey play, but viper have problem in a team base game don’t you think? she have poor dhc in if she get snap out ( vergil get rape on incoming) and poor assist. I think that’s why she’s not doing so good in tournament, not because she’s a bad character individually but because people have to build a team around her while she don’t really give support to the other two characters. I think marlin pie’s team circumvent this by have the doom/ammy paring(which viper do nothing for them other than extend combos) because the pairing don’t need anything from viper. I don’t know… I want to use viper but she’s such a bad character in a team game.
good reply , there is a lot of viable team in Umvc3 still… which is very good because more characters and more variety, but man every hot team that come out I just want o use them. make it so hard to stick with a team.
how about rating paring for now ? maybe we can compile a list of the best paring and then people and criss and cross and come up with more optimal team than the ones out now? for example, ( and I got this from you guys)
dante/mag+ zero/dante = zero/dante/mag( or any order of that team)
i think zero/dante/mag is as close to a all around theory top tier team as we have now.
I thought the same thing, but Viper can actually outzone Nova easily if she runs out fo meter. Seismos hit at justt he right height to give Nova a hard approach and Blast cust off his ability to call assist to get in unless he gets out a Level 2 Pulse.
The second paragraph caught my eye. Viper wouldn’t be a bad character whether this was a team/solo game. She has tools to flood the screen, make herself safe, all while putting pressure on the opponent. And this being a team game, she has two assists behind her to make her even MORE safe and/or help her flood the screen. viper/jam session unblockables? Viper/Vajra? Both examples of how she becomes a hell of a lot better in a team game. Yes she has a poor DHC, but she’s a point character at her core. Optimally, you’ll just pressure the opponent enough until they make a mistake and you catch them in one, and then incoming mixups so your opponent just has to guess or die. The only reason why I think she’s not winning any tournaments is the same thing people have been saying: nobody’s playing her to her highest potential yet. And with her skill cap, it’ll probably take a lot more time.
I agree with some parts. you are right with the right assists she is a monster. She can can people up that’s for sure and even more so with the right assist. But my argument is that she don’t bring much to the other characters in the team. DHC wise she can’t TOD like zero lighting loop DHC or Vergil sword loop DHC. Assist wise, she have nothing abusive like dante jam session or gimmicky like morrigan meter gain assist(She can do OTG combo extension or highlow with burn kick, but that’s about it). THC wise she can’t do anything like ammy or dante super shenanigans . She don’t have a multi-direction TAC infinite for meter or free damage. She is a solo character that gets better with people backing her up but don’t assist the other characters in the team.
Now back to you first point of her being a top tier flood/pressure character, that’s true only when she’s in play right? what if she get snap back? got chipped by morridoom, or lame out by zero, dorm or even modok! once she’s out of play, even when she’s still alive, she bring nothing to the table to help her teammates. Compare to other top tiers characters even if they are out of play they are still a threat because they provide godlike asssist( dante, mag) , have DHC TOD(vergil or zero) or can come back in safely with powerup/safe super (morrigan, ammy, vergil, dante, doom, etc.) but viper can’t do any of that.
So for viper people can simply snap her out or force her to tag and don’t have to worry much about her making much difference for her team. This way people don’t have to waste/use xfactor , multiple level, long combos, or hard set up to kill her. This give your opponent more resources and chance to deal with your other character while you might have to pop xfactor, super (morrigan(3 levels!) , sentinel) to come in safely or take back the momentum.
team that succeed with viper always have to good duo behind her like ammy/doom, doom/strider, vergil/strider or dante/strider because these duo don’t need her, while she need them to complement her game. You always here viper/strider or viper/dante being a good pair but never the other way around. not body is scare of a x factor less strider with viper backing him up right?
with that say, do you think viper/dante/strider is the best viper team ?
Burning Kick, an almost full screen overhead assist vergil can (probably) get unblockables off of? Dante gets nice combos of off burning kick extension/mid combo. An otg assist in seismo for situational usage? This is all theory, but Viper shouldn’t have to deal with getting snapped back much because she should be controlling the pace of the match, and getting the first hit. She doesn’t NEED to bring good support to a team to not be a bad character, she’s already a top character just in the point position. Some matchups are skewed in her favor just by having rapid seismos. Of course a character gets worse in a sub-optimal position, just like when your assist/anchor characters are snapped in.
What changed about Lariat from Vanilla to Ultimate? I know they removed the hard knockdown, but did they change anything else? It was super abused along with Tron assist but now nobody runs it, yet it still seems mostly the same? It’s not like you need the knockdown to confirm off of it, you have plenty of time usually.
Strange/Doom is more hitbox flood-oriented, which I’m sure DevilJin at least would appreciate. THC is nothing to write home about and the mixups aren’t as good as Strange/Dante or Strange/Dog, but nonetheless, it is still a very strong support shell for the point character. Strange’s projectile game is very under-utilized at this point in the meta IMO-- that’s why I messed around with it for a good while before switching to a more offensive/oppressive shell, Strange/Dante.
Well you are talking about a ideal situation then. Of course there are characters that are great at getting the first hit (viper, zero, wolverine) but that’s not always the case. People drop combos and while this game is very prone to one touch kill, as people play the game more, getting kill from first hit is just not as easy (learned match up, set ups).
Can you guarantee first hit every game? Don’t the other person also look for that first hit? What if you are playing a run away team like modok , or zoning team like morridoom, or dorm. Therefore, you should always consider what happen when your viper is going out of play
yes, the whole point of snapping mechanism is to bring out the weaker link in the team. But in this case , if you get snap , not only are you forced in a weak character on your team, viper also then just sit in the back providing like you said 1) a almost full screen overhead assist that’s prone to chicken guard, and 2) a mediocre otg assist that don’t stun them that long compare to wesker and dante’s otg assist. Very weak assist for the team.