2015 UMVC3 SRK Tier/Theory Discussion. 7/10 First Page Tumblr: Power of snapback, Future power teams

So, I am making a tier list the chrisis way and I need your help. From a scale from 1-10, how much do you think the following should matter? (Things in parentheses are things that should be considered)

  1. How good they are on point (With two assists, optimized team, start of the round, etc.)
  2. How good they are on second (With just one assist and around 3 meters stocked)
  3. How good they are on anchor (Not including assists, just with usually good amount of meter stocked and XF3)
  4. Support (Assists, DHCs, THCs, TACs)

Honestly how good of an anchor they are doesn’t matter alot in the current meta.
Anchor is usually providing your best assist.

Dok has more than enough reasons and bullshit to be picked over Magneto. Magneto is just friendlier to use, has better/easier movement, and is easier to make effective on teams, while you really have to specialize in Dok and build the team around him to make him great.

Dok has some of the most unique options in the game. One of the best is his jamming bomb into snapback shenanigans. Dok has the ability to greatly disrupt your team composition on the first hit by jamming your point and snapping in your anchor. Not only are you switching the team order, but you just put a character in the back that is going to be done on incoming and likely won’t be able to be used for safe DHCs in (if they can even get the motion out). This gives Dok great options if there are more than one ā€œproblemā€ characters on a team.

Dok has ridiculously safe block strings. (cr.L, st.M, cr.H, IAD j.L)xN is his basic string that is 100% safe. XF guard cancel? f.H will grab you. Pushblock? If I can predict it, I get a free high-low, and if I don’t, I can easily cancel it into a barrier, cube, or blaster. If you don’t pushblock, good luck blocking.

Dok’s zoning tools are pretty stupid. Blasters on block will push you back, making it safe nearly all the time, and are multi-hitting and cut through armor effectively. Cubes are 0 on block and don’t go away on hit. L cube is like a weak Vanilla flame carpet. cr.M lasts 60 frames and stops slides, EX thunder knuckle, berserker slash, etc, and can be cancelled into cubes, blasters, etc. Bombs can home in and have dumb durability. Bombs nullify/trade with beams, Mystic Sword, and I believe even piercing bolt. They can be used to advance or to cover your back against teleporters. Jamming bomb is actually great in neutral, since it tracks at a decent speed for a long time, making it scary for approaches and even more so as a combo breaker. On top of that, he has barrier, which stops everything short of a hyper, and even then, it stops Strider’s Orbs.

Dok also probably has the best full screen punish into ToD in the game. L blaster into HPB and XF for the kill is too good and works on 2 for 1s. The only other character that I think can do this is Strange, but confirming his projectiles into SoV into a ToD is not as safe or easy (BoB into SoV).

I’ll finish by mentioning that he also ToDs with a proper team, has unblockable resets, has unblockable setups on incoming, has guard breaks, probably travels diagonally upward to super jump height faster than anyone in the game by utilizing his double air dash glitch and plink dashing, can run effectively from XF derp, has j.L which is virtually ungrabbable, has j.S which can crossup and ground bounces, can combo into ToD off ground and air throws, has a ridiculous grab range, has TAC infinites on top of his normal TACs that kill anyway, can loop his HBR anywhere on screen if you want to spend the meter, and has the longest flight in the game and can block during it. And none of this is impractical. You just need to know your matchups and build a strong team/set of teams for Dok.

And Dok gives up what for all of this? The inability to chicken block and bad get off me options in a game that’s all about avoiding those situations, and in a game with alpha counters, dumb grabs, and snapbacks. If you were forced to block as Dok, the odds of survival with another character is going to be more or less the same against a competent opponent. Not to mention that Dok has some of the best tools to avoid those situations right from the start of the round.

I think just the analysis of Dok’s unique tools on top of an already solid character is enough for most to see that there are cases where you would want to put Dok over Magneto on a team.

TL-DR: I can’t wait to see someone master Dok’s tools.

Point:
Wolverine
Magneto
Taskmaster
Nova
Zero
Viper
Spencer
Vergil
Morrigan
Wesker

Second:
Doom
Dante
Vergil
Taskmaster
Strange
Sentinel
Frank
Storm
Dormammu
Morrigan

Third:
Akuma
Hawkeye
Phoenix
Vergil
Magneto
Doom
Dante
Strider
Sentinel
Amaterasu

Deadpool has this too. However, he has to DHC to kill the point if it’s a happy birthday.

What you wrote about Modok sounds pretty mid-tier to me. Lots of characters have good stuff. The thing I don’t see with Modok is the ability to transition from fullscreen away and zoning you to in your face and mixing you up under the cover of an assist. That’s the thing Magneto really has over Modok and it’s extremely important.

Point:
Wolverine
Magneto
Taskmaster
Nova
Zero
Viper
Spencer
Vergil
Morrigan
Wesker

Second:
Doom
Dante
Vergil
Taskmaster
Strange
Sentinel
Frank
Storm
Dormammu
Morrigan

Third:
Akuma
Hawkeye
Phoenix
Vergil
Magneto
Doom
Dante
Strider
Sentinel
Rocket Raccoon?

[quote=LTP, post: 7931136, member: 60504]
Dok has more than enough reasons and bullshit to be picked over Magneto. Magneto is just friendlier to use, has better/easier movement, and is easier to make effective on teams, while you really have to specialize in Dok and build the team around him to make him great.

Dok has some of the most unique options in the game. One of the best is his jamming bomb into snapback shenanigans. Dok has the ability to greatly disrupt your team composition on the first hit by jamming your point and snapping in your anchor. Not only are you switching the team order, but you just put a character in the back that is going to be done on incoming and likely won’t be able to be used for safe DHCs in (if they can even get the motion out). This gives Dok great options if there are more than one ā€œproblemā€ characters on a team.
[/Quote]

While I LOVE me some jamming bomb. If you touch a character it’s better to kill them. What’s worse than a jammed character? A living one. In the realm of welcoming mixups in todays day an age you might as well be jammed. Good luck guessing. If the opponent manages to touch the ground they can always team hyper to screw wait out the jam. In other news Magneto is fast with a superior option select, as much as I like DOK/Missiles. Magneto/Missiles is much more effective due to the sheer speed and option select of it.

[quote=LTP, post: 7931136, member: 60504]
Dok has ridiculously safe block strings. (cr.L, st.M, cr.H, IAD j.L)xN is his basic string that is 100% safe. XF guard cancel? f.H will grab you. Pushblock? If I can predict it, I get a free high-low, and if I don’t, I can easily cancel it into a barrier, cube, or blaster. If you don’t pushblock, good luck blocking.
[/Quote]

Too bad if the pushblock is done a certain MODOK suffers from a RIDICULOUS pushblock glitch. Truth be told I’d still rather block MODOK than Magneto anyday. Magneto practically always has a free high/low if he’s close to you. Characters like Magneto can standing L MOST of MODOKS approaches easily if it’s not covered.

[quote=LTP, post: 7931136, member: 60504]
Dok’s zoning tools are pretty stupid. Blasters on block will push you back, making it safe nearly all the time, and are multi-hitting and cut through armor effectively. Cubes are 0 on block and don’t go away on hit. L cube is like a weak Vanilla flame carpet. cr.M lasts 60 frames and stops slides, EX thunder knuckle, berserker slash, etc, and can be cancelled into cubes, blasters, etc. Bombs can home in and have dumb durability. Bombs nullify/trade with beams, Mystic Sword, and I believe even piercing bolt. They can be used to advance or to cover your back against teleporters. Jamming bomb is actually great in neutral, since it tracks at a decent speed for a long time, making it scary for approaches and even more so as a combo breaker. On top of that, he has barrier, which stops everything short of a hyper, and even then, it stops Strider’s Orbs.
[/Quote]

If armored moves weren’t attached to ass characters in general in this game I’d say the blaster feature is a benefit. Being at 0 on block isn’t necessarily a good thing when everyone else has faster normals than you. Crouching M. is a nice touch to stop straight forward approaches however. Bombs however if not covered are just asking to be punished with ridiculously slow start up. Barrier has its utility, but it’s also the bane of MODOK. Some attacks will actually go through it at the right rotation. Not to mention he can’t cancel the animation.

Definite point for DOK. Magneto with the right team does excellent versus DOK however with magnetic blasts and I can’t count how many times I’ve done Psionic Blas* DISRUPTERED then continued to get my assist punished with a shockwave pray the DHC isn’t strong.

[quote=LTP, post: 7931136, member: 60504]
I’ll finish by mentioning that he also ToDs with a proper team, has unblockable resets, has unblockable setups on incoming, has guard breaks, probably travels diagonally upward to super jump height faster than anyone in the game by utilizing his double air dash glitch and plink dashing, can run effectively from XF derp, has j.L which is virtually ungrabbable, has j.S which can crossup and ground bounces, can combo into ToD off ground and air throws, has a ridiculous grab range, has TAC infinites on top of his normal TACs that kill anyway, can loop his HBR anywhere on screen if you want to spend the meter, and has the longest flight in the game and can block during it. And none of this is impractical. You just need to know your matchups and build a strong team/set of teams for Dok.
[/Quote]

This I can give DOK and one of the reasons why I hope one day my ass or someone else can actually show this stuff off. I think however that the strongest DOK teams have very REAL counters with teams sporting many of the 10 top points.

And Dok gives up what for all of this? The inability to chicken block and bad get off me options in a game that’s all about avoiding those situations, and in a game with alpha counters, dumb grabs, and snapbacks. If you were forced to block as Dok, the odds of survival with another character is going to be more or less the same against a competent opponent. Not to mention that Dok has some of the best tools to avoid those situations right from the start of the round.

Unfortunately I still don’t see it. The ability to just fucking do it is to strong in this game. Ironically, DOK is much more of a thinking mans character in a very reactionary game. So many setups with DOK while Magneto can just flail around like an idiot with easy OS and conversions.

Wesker over Dante 2nd? Got jokes.

i wouldn’t say that his dhc sucks, its just very situational.

counter dhc is great for baiting moves like bionic arm.

maximum wesker does a lot of damage depending on your screen positioning. its also semi safe to dhc in from a distance.

The only thing worse than some of the nonsensical posts in this thread are the people who post just to say how bad this thread is. It’s like you want the thread to be bad as you make sure to remind everyone that you think it sucks.

Who truly benefits from a maximum wesker dhc?
Damn near everyone corner carriers, so the damage will end up being ass.
Why would you ever waste 2 bars baiting a bionic arm? Not to mention whats stopping that Spencer from doing a dhc of his own?
Semi-safe isn’t safe, not to mention Wesker is putting his body out there.

This thread is like 12 pages long from all the idiots I have ignored.

spider man crawler assault is probably the only good DHC to Wesker I can think of off the top of my head

I am a part time comedian.

This. And maybe:

Mag/Doom/Dante(or Vergil)
Dante/Vergil/Magneto
Zero/Dante/Strider

X / walmart / smegma beam

Thor or Strange are good choices for X

eww no, thor can only be played with X / bolts of balthakk aka thundara / coldstar aka blizzara or X / 2D1C liberation aka Flare / missiles aka Comet 2

strange needs ammy so that they can use THC of SOV + Okami shuffle aka Tetra-disaster

Serpentaurus what is up with the retarded move names?

M.O.D.O.K - Spiderman - Dr Doom

Puts Thor She Hulk to shame