I also believe that Dormammu will drop once everyone switches to teleporters
2015 UMVC3 SRK Tier/Theory Discussion. 7/10 First Page Tumblr: Power of snapback, Future power teams
Not even that, they still do the shitty inconsistent LL, donāt do proper midscreen confirms/combos, donāt save Zero when heās like 50% red health, do the same mixup over and over hoping itāll work, randomly go full retard when they arenāt in control, etc.
Theyāre just bad players in general carried by a broken character, like reverse Combofiends or something.
Why do children bring up Dr Strange when I donāt even bring him up anymore on this lost cause of a close minded forum?
All people do is make or post retarded memes out of everything.
And apparently MorriDoom isnt defensive proof?
FChamp flooding people out with Dorm/Doom isnt proof?
Outside of Wolverine, the characters that are gonna struggle in the future are the characters who HAVE to get in and dont have an amazing neutralā¦ like Spencer for example.
Anyway once people realize that Zeroās best position is 2nd and that he isnāt joint to the hip with Dante heāll be way more dangerous. Chris Schmidt seems like the only one who gets it.
C.Viper is the character that really needs Dante but I doubt Marlin Pie would make that switch
cause Doom swag takes precedence over winning more.
do i get points for saying x23 sucks before u did
disagreed. zero with missiles has some good stuff, but jam session is perfect for zero in at least 6 or more ways. there isnāt much else that youād like to have as an assist for zero except when you are full screen, where stuff like missiles, beams, or vajra would be called; however, these arenāt quite as necessary as jam session at close range with a teleport, which sets up a series of mixups (at least 2).
viper with dante is good, but i think her best assist is strider; it gives her just as good screen control in a way that she converts off of easier and w/ more damage.
Zero would have completely overtaken tournaments in any regular animu game a long time ago already. Itās just this game is cheap enough where he can be somewhat contained.
if you really think people arent playing this game right, go out there and prove it instead of making dumbass remarks.
and people do play defensive. the best characters in the game can easily shift from offense to defense. its been that way since vanilla.
you donāt need to play cookie cutter optimal teams. there is nothing wrong with using your own team that you are comfortable with and has some chemistry.
Zero doesnāt need Jam Session cause optimally heād be in the 2nd slot.
Also he needs something that makes lightning cross ups even more safe like missiles.
Zeros should be dominating the ground anyway and taking to the air when the opponent takes to the air.
C.Viper gets to run her unblockables on incoming & box people in.
I like Mazios C.Viper Strange Dante team though Iād switch Dante & Dr Stranges order for synergy purposes.
Okay, so anybody know what NerdJosh was talking about in his tweet yet?
Wow screw what I said about a SGGK I was complicating this too much. ITS BETTER THAN AN SGGK! MARVEL JUST GOT CHEAPER CONFIRMED! [S]#[/S]UMVC3 [S][SIZE=14px][FONT=Arial]#[/S]GAY[/FONT][/SIZE]
Whatās SGGK?
Updated tier list
[details=Spoiler]
Top Tier
Wolverine(moved up from barely mid tier. . . wolverine defeated chris g who has defeated thor, strange, and doom, so by the transitive property, wolverine is now #1)
Thor(moved down from #1)
Strange(moved down from #2)
Doom(moved down from #3)
High tier
Shuma-Gorath (Anti morrigan. . . mystic ray eliminates every hidden missile and soul fist and solves world hunger+ meter drain grab means no astral vision because you can just do grab then oki grab off the hard knockdown for infinite meter drain=no astral vision ever)
Ghost Rider (His chain is completely anti morrigan, and he can render magneto useless with his spire)
Everyone else is irrelevant
I still see characters that are very projectile heavy going even or still having advantage over him. Especially with meter. Viper with the right assist and a meter or 2 should still not really get hit by him outside of mash yolo super (which she can still do stuff to fight or counter). Hawkeye with assist and meters can still lame him out, Magneto with assist and meters can still play really lame against him, even Zero especially with Sogenmu active shouldnāt really get a clean hit on him. I still dontā see how heās supposed to get clean hits regularly on Morri esepcially if sheās in AV.
Jam Session is easily Frankās best assist easily it seems though since it allows him to do cheap port mix up stuff into combo like Zero which heās always been a big threat for. Just like Kusoru did with log trap, Frank doesnāt even need to be at 4 or 5 to be oppressive with those types of assists. Give him 2 and he can bully around the lower cast easily.
Mainly because Dr.Strange is one of the 50 characters in the game and weāre allowed to talk about him. Theory is good, but top 2 Strange is basically even beyond MVC2 Dhalsim theory and anyone who actually understands footsies and spacing in fighting games will understand that Strangeās normal and movement set are unfeasible for that outcome. Itās complete alien theory that will never occur realistically within the game. Viper is clearly more practical theory wise than MVC2 Dhalsim was and itās really only a matter of time for her in comparison to Strange. She has some tough stuff, but she isnāt constantly doing one frame links on top of her advanced movement and neutral control techniques like MVC2 Sim had to. If she doesnāt break the game she will easily get within a top 3 to 5 for tournaments soon enough, if not already.
Yes cuz iz fun.
Nobody is defensive proof at the start of the round since the game allows you to close the footsies gap before the round starts which is pretty cheap for this game Itās generally something that only specific animu/vs. fighters regularly allow you to do.
Dorm/Doom is strong with a lot of meters but Dorm still has to commit too much where he still gets bopped sometimes by fast movement or other projectile centric characters.
Slide Grab Gyakunitaku Kick
The term originates from a move Chun Li has but the same name is used for everyoneās OS.
3rd Strike technique that was discovered by the Japanese that basically allows you to do SFIV style OSās with your parries. If the opponent throws out an attack and you parry, a normal comes out and you can buffer that into whatever. If the opponent does not attack, a kara throw releases. So basically you throw them if theyāre blocking and get an automatic normal to release if you parry them.
ācookie cutter optimal teamsā are still ahead of the weird teams in terms of effectiveness, character synergy is important, and how good a character is is also important.
zero vergil dante is a standard that has plenty of strengths that no other team has and few weaknesses
it is pretty unique in how optimal it is; jam session shores up plenty of the normal holes in the normal games of zero/vergil, dante anchor is optimal dante
also zero dante strider is another good zero team, with 2 good assists for zero, a good assist for dante (but no damage unless zero is alive), and strider one of the best anchors
but yeah āstandardsā should definitely be explored before trying to come up for unique stuff just because the strengths are obvious and realistic
doom is extremely flexible as support ; he goes well with plenty of the cast ; if there is a pair of characters that go well with each other and doom, thatās a pretty decent team right there
same goes for strider teams where you have your pool of viper, doom, wesker, dante, vergil, nova, etc.
same goes for frank teams where your pool of chars is vergil, spencer, dante, nova, skrull, and some other unique choices [but those are the āstandardā]
same goes for sentinel teams where you have a pretty big pool of characters, but drones isnāt quite as effective as other assists nowadays
sggk is an option select in 3s, prolly some other OG sf games too.
the option selects beats attacks, parries and throws. chun had the best one and yun also had a really good one.
chuns was kara hk. if it hits, she can sj cancel into super. if it gets parried, she can sj cancel. if opponent throws, it either gets beaten out because far hk makes her leave the ground or she techs or out throw you because of her superior range.
yun was with his close mk buffer into command throw. if its parried, he sj cancels to safety, if it hits, he cancels into super, if opponent tries to throw, i think either he techs or it gets beaten out by the command throw because of the range.
Seriously If you are going to fucking theory about a character and nobody agrees with you, then prove us wrong. Go to a major.
It just reinforces why backing him with a neutral assist that helps with zoning is a great way to round out the flaws, but unfortunately most people donāt do that. Regardless, I donāt see much fear in Viper (though admittedly I havenāt played much in the way of good ones); I personally would just duck beams/try to stay full screen and wait for an opportunity. Iād worry more about her once I see a viper thatās actually willing the lame that out for the entire match, but even then I wouldnāt consider it a dealbreaker. She hurts if you get opened up though so that makes her respect worthy for sure. Hawkeye doesnāt hit hard enough, you can barrel roll his zoning in a lot of spots and if you get the first object toss you can actually outzone him lol. Mags is good with supports and blasts and hurts, the match is around even IMO. Zoning Zero is easily in Zeroās favor and he definitely hurts.
Even if we agreed that all of those were bad matchups for Frank though, it just reinforces the need for looking at it as a team game. If Frank oppresses 80% of the cast with chainsaws, and my point character can match well against the other 20%, whatās the problem? Leveling Frank then switching him out is perfectly viable; I do it all the time with Nova to deal with zoning if I think Frankāll struggle. Just because Frank can kill an entire team by himself doesnāt mean he has to or that heās bad if he runs into a few bumps. Heās got friends for those.
I fucking died at shuma
WHEN DID I PUT SPOILERS. SRK GET YOUR SHIT TOGETHER
zero with jam session is better than any non-jam session zero; zero second doesnāt seem optimal to me because his gameplan is a combination of safe zoning that transitions into a sequence of 5 way mixups with jam session and buster cancels; on hit, it is a touch of death that corner carries and leads into a sequence of 5 way mixups with jam session and buster cancels.
Reasons why dante [jam session] is perfect for zero:
[LIST=1]
[]pretty fast startup: zeroās tools go well with how fast jam session comes out: it covers the fact that zeroās airdash and grounded forward dash are pretty slow, it goes well with zeroās fast command dash for a basic easy crossup in sH+call jam + M teleport, and zeroās overall long blockstun on things like his buster and normals cover dante coming out
[]the fast startup also allows for zero to convert off air throws and ground throws in the corner
[]long blockstun: zeroās slow horizontal movement options in airdash and forward ground dash become less of a liability since jam session causes so much blockstun. zeroās recovery on his command dashes matters less when his opponent gets locked down by jam session; this allows zero to get a series of mixups from the assist call. zero has more time to charge buster when someone is blocking jam session; this allows zero to do an extended series of mixups even after the assist is over.
[]on block, it is feasible to set up a Sougenmu unblockable with jam session due to its blockstun
[]long hitstun: he also has more time to convert off of jam session with a lv3 buster than a lot of other assists.
[]The length of jam session allows zero to do strong assist extenders with it that build him extra meter and do good damage
[]hitbox size [big vertical hitbox, decent amount of horizontal space covered] : zero can convert off of any height with a lv3 buster; jam sessionās large hitbox is plenty dangerous by itself, but when a character can convert off of many heights the assist becomes zeroās best poke
[]Jam sessionās size also means that he has a tool against characters he might normally have problems with, like magneto, morrigan, trish, etc
[]jam sessionās primary drawback is that it scales combo damage down: zeroās lightning loop does ~500k per rep even at max scaling
[]Jam sessionās projectile durability helps zero dominate some projectile matchups as it can eat soul fists and the like. zero can throw a lot of projectile durability out, with busters, lightnings, hadangekis, sougenmu, and the occasional genmu zero
[/LIST]
Yeah itās just the whole having to keep your point character alive to get something really good that Iām still not a big fan of. I like some of the supposed teams where heās second where the point or anchor can get him to level 4, but those are the only ones I like. Which even thenā¦lose your point in the corner, Frank takes incoming mix up that he has no aerial movement or supers to deal with. He doesnāt provide a really oppressive DHC in the second spot like Morri, Strange or Vergil does either.
Thats all fine and well DevilJin if people were actually discussing Dr Strange to discuss the characterā¦ but when I make a post on a completely different subject some retards only response will be ābecause Dr Strange is top 2ā on some stupid meme shit lol
Iām not Serp. I dont blow trumpets at my arrival cause Thor da best. I say a few things & bounce to something else if people donāt wanna hear it or ridicule it. This thread is more in lines with a daycare center anyway so every reponse is taken with a grain of salt.
Needs more Chrisis clones
I just view leveled Frank as a fat Zero. He is pretty retarded when he gets in using an optimal team, but a fair amount of zoners can outplay him. You just need to respect his shit and stay the hell away from him. You can almost say Frank is on par with Zero, due to his insane chip, better assists, extra health, and invincible supers versus Zeroās Lighting Loops and comically safe shitā¦
But you still got to level him up to get there. He is only one man, after allā¦
As I have said a few times, Zero isnāt top 10. He has some dumb shit, no lie, but he belongs nowhere near Dante, Viper, Vergil, Magneto, Morrigan, Dormammu, Doom, Strange, and Strider. He belongs with Ammy, Firebrand, Skrull, Nova, Taskmaster, and Joe in the āPretty Damn Goodā tier.
Oh believe me, I donāt blame you for not being a fan of it. Itās unstable by nature, even with a level up anchor in the back (which I made sure to have). On the days where it shifts from āeffectiveā to āgetting bodiedā Iāll occasionally have second doubts. But I personally just have too much fun playing with him, and when the wheels get turning itās exceedingly oppressive/effective.
That said, Iād never bother making another team with him on it and Iām still looking for a backup team without him/would encourage any other Frank player to do the same. I truly do believe he has use in the current meta though, but at the same time having other options is a good idea for situations where you donāt think heāll be effective enough to warrant his use.