Man, some of you guys really have to explain better how you are talking about Doom.
Of course every top player is using Doom, he’s the best support character. If you think PR Rog picked up Doom because he is an amazing point character, than you are lying to yourself. This character is giving Wolverine one of his best assists (Plasma Beam), a safe DHC, and the ability of killing the entire cast out of a 33% guess. Nah but Doom with Rapid Slash so top tier man.
FChamp = Assist + Meter
Infrit = Assist
Shady/CJ/Rog = Assist + TAC
Chris G = Assist
Dios X = … Point with Drones backing him up. Does he even play that anymore?
Doom is a great character only because of the way the game is. A matchup is a matchup but he can end very quickly seeing how he has great conversions from anywhere and his damage is fantastic. One hit ends a bad matchup. Keeping into account this, this is still not the way to judge characters in a list because then we would be talking about a damage list and Strange would be TRULY Top 2 (well 1).
Doom has a handful (or more) of bad matchups. Magneto, Zero, Dormammu, Hawkeye, Vergil, etc. Now imagine the same matchups with Dante. Does Dante struggle more than Doom against Magneto? Against Zero? Hawkeye? Vergil? Hell no. He probably goes 5-5 against all of them and might even beat Hawkeye IMO. But why is this? Because that’s just the way it is? No, because simply he has better tools, period.
Dante has better normals, better zoning, and even when talking about point Dante + assist, better mixups. Until you experience something like Stinger + Disruptor/Unibeam which combos on hit and sets up a mixup on block, you truly can’t say much. Then there’s Vajra, and Stinger+Drones Reverb Shock > Fireworks which again combos on hit and sets up a mixup on block. Than you can add Weasel Shot and now you can’t compare.
In summary, Dante > Doom free, if you are not counting team support. Just pure point character tools.
Except that landing j.m, footdive, and throws does happen all the fucking time, dropped combos are a reality, and doom kills you off all of it. Dante gets beat handily in a quite a few matchups and he doesn’t have the random factor to beat his bad matchups like doom does. What are dante’s good matchups at the high level? There’s a reason it’s the forum scrubs backing up Dante as a good character rather than top players.
That said I think dante is a high tier character free because he is the best assist for Vergil and Zero who are the best point characters in the game.
Doom has one thing over Dante/Strange and most of the cast. He is without the doubt the best punisher of mistakes upclose in the game. If you drop your combo you get footdived into a ToD combo, your blockstring isn’t clean enough, you get thrown into a ToD combo, you aren’t clean on your keepaway and leave a single gap, you get footdived into a ToD combo, get hit by mashed crL on wakeup which is very good.
Strange will do more damage off a random hit/midscreen in the corner, but Dr Doom will ToD everyone relevant in the cast(except Task) with basically any hitconfirm or throw solo for any conversion/punish . Something very characters can actually achieve solo.
I know that, but where I live no one plays this game and known tournaments are very far away (I live in Brazil - pretty much explained). That’s why I said “online”. Obviously high level tournament play Dantes don’t do that.
More discussion on Dr. Strange:
[details=Spoiler]People like to say Strange has bad movement. That is part true. Strange has decent ground movement. For approaching he has 3 teleports. For creating distance he has a very good plink backdash (I’m still trying to do it 100% of the time). The only player I saw using that backdash is Nemo, he does this then setup an EoA. His front plink/wavedash is useless. The bad part is that his air movement is terrible. He only has flight to “run” away, or Grace of Hoggoth/FoF to stay a little more in the air or letting a safe teleport (but you need to be at least not too close to the opponent to do this). All other projectiles leave you vulnerable, teleporting is risky and air SoV if blocked leaves you open. If he had better normals none of this would matter. Strange is still a momentum based character, as once you setup an Eye of Agamotto and some Graces you force your opponent to block the mixups or start to jump like crazy (people already know the devastating mixups Strange can do with graces). Getting this momentum without dying because of the 850k health is the point.
I also totally agree with DevilJin saying he is a properly balanced character. From playing him you can say that. Disappearing EoA and Daggers M when hit, disappearing Graces after a level 3, max of 3 moves in the air, 1 for EoA and Daggers (and be vulnerable after doing it), long recovery from SoV, bad normals for a fast teleport, crouching against mystic sword l, yeah that’s a lot.
Ok, until now I just threw rocks at him. So why I keep playing him?
-I love the character
-Love the teleports
-Love the combos
-Love the mixups
-Love the assists
-Love SoV[/details]
Doom is top 6 Or 7 and he’s a lot better than dante. Theoretically dante could be played on the same teams with the same shells but he’s not and if he he wouldn’t get the same results as doom.
Hmmn i always thought that was a legit punish shrug the more you know.
Remember, top players once said Wesker was the best character in the game. Top players once said that Zero wasn’t that good. Top players once said that Spencer was top 3.
You’re comparing the tourney meta to the SRK theory “ideal” meta though. When people at tourneys are playing like retards doing suboptimal combos and unsafe shit Spencer is going to seem like some elder god tier character. Zero players dropping basic shit like midscreen LMHS combos and every single LL doesn’t help either. You can theorize the Viper vs Zero matchup all day, but when everyone IRL sucks with those two characters it doesn’t really matter. I’m not defending what they said because it’s obviously retarded, but that’s the reason why you hear stuff like that from Champ/Justin/etc.
You’ve basically proven my point. I was disregarding the fact that “top player tiering” should be prioritized over “forum scrubs.” It tends to be much more sensationalized.
Dorm is one of those few characters that is better with 3 bars and an assist than one bar and two assists. If point Firebrand is truly optimized, he becomes the perfect point for Dorm because he will either 300% you are build a shit ton of meter while he keeps resetting you. Plus, you shouldn’t count on having a good assist from your point, because he will most likely die a painful death.
I need to move to one of these areas. Moved 1000 miles away and that’s still all I play against. But I’ve mained a Vergil optimized team since day 1. So I just laugh at them.
One tech I’ve been seeing more of lately is Morrigan as second. Morrigan coming in with 3-4 meters is one of the most frustrating things I’ve ever played against.
People still haven’t woken up to the fact Morrigan is at least top 5? She has potentially 1 bad matchup … Vergil … nothing else is even close to a disadvantage matchup. Dorm can potentially be but I’m convinced that matchup comes down to who gets momentum first rather than it truly being a bad matchup as Dorm can get roflstomped if he gets put down on life (she gets first combo) and she starts running the astral vision / missiles train. Modok isn’t even a bad matchup at all just a win more type character as if he’s up on life she has a hard time if Doom is down.
Personally she #3 on my list after Zero and Vergil.
Wesker was the best. I think the main promblem with this thread and theory monsters are they don’t take into account the current metagame. For whatever reason people are trying to predict what’s going to be good ten years from now instead of giving credit to what’s good now As for Wesker please point ti another character that took up 7 spots of 8 at a major. But hey results don’t matter…:rolleyes:
Hey guys, gonna introduce this new game. Early on people are going to say X, one of the simplest characters to pick up, is the best character in the game. In light of that, a large majority of the players will start using X just because he’s X. Then, X will by some unlikely chance be on a number of top ranking teams in a tournament. Consequently this will be evidence that X is the best player in the game.
Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, flawed argument is flawed. Again.
wesker is very good. the problem with wesker is he has a bad matchup against the 5 characters that are considered top tier now and that everybody pick: magneto, zero, morrigan, vergil, doom