So I got a pretty solid confirmation that the “not being able to combo into EX GH anymore” claim is bogus.
I asked Dawgtanian on face, he confirmed that it wont be comboable from lights. Both comboable EX-GH from lights AND safe medium on hit would be way broken vs. The part of the cast that does not have good zoning tools. But with a nerf too light SPD, I guess it wouldnt be too unfair afterall. Feks if the SPD range returns to Super.
Yeah feks. The jab spd really fits into Giefs playstyle
So hold on, if we can’t do cr.jab or lk os ex.gh anymore and the jab spd range is getting nerfed what the fuck are we supposed to do now? So Gief will have basically zero footsies now? I really don’t get this at all.
you can try with some st.mp spam
To clear up any confusion, this is what I have understood so far.
Light Flats = Much faster and at the moment really scrubby.
Light SPD range SLightly Nerfed.
Medium Flats Safe on Hit, still not decided if +1 / 0 or -1.
EX-Flats, slower and knocks down.
I too Enjoy the threat of light SPD right now, and without a knockdown on comboes/whiffpunishes I dont think it should be reverted. Not like our russian is super strong at the moment.
Just wondering, but which Flats can be hit confirmed from light normals in the new update? Or how is it supposed to look like?
Why the fuck are they even messing with the gh’s and ex.gh’s? They really have no clue what to do with Gief, it’s plainly obvious. Just give us the old ex.gh with kd, keep the regular gh’s the same, improve some of his normals, get rid of rbg and close st.lk, and there you have it. Most of us would be very happy with that but instead they are completely over-analyzing things and are messing with things that shouldn’t be messed with. They haven’t learned anything from the last three iterations? Unbelievable.
but wait if any normal flat is going to be safe and can be comboed from lights thats is better than spending meter for the same effect right?
Well thats hard to answer because if you whiff punish a poke from someone with cr jab or st short into lp gh depending on the spacing zangiefs lp gh can whiff, unless you can do cr jab/st short into medium gh than we are gonna have more greenhand problems. To answer question though the lp/mp flats dont do as much dmg as th ex version but they can get focus baited if you are using lp mp green hands. Always being able to end a combo with gh without meter is nice though.
totally right about the ranges and dmg
I think it’s a tradeoff that may or may not be in our favor. It’s basically a damage nerf but we get to sit on our meter more consistently, so perhaps Gief will have more opportunity to use the super/u2 50/50.
Still, I’m not sure if I like giving up guaranteed damage for the threat of a 50/50 I may not even get a chance to use. Also, if he can only combo LP GH from lights, then won’t he lose some of his hit confirms as well? Like st.MP, HC st.LK xx GH?
I dont think he will lose that. Hope the gh is sped up fast enough to os backdashes while theyre still airborn for a soft knockdown. What im wondering right now is if the lp gh will be less unsafe on block since its sped up.
Since Arcade Edition Zangief has been able to combo into Medium Flats from Light attacks, and it has more range than light greenahnd, but as Snakeeyez says, I dont believe it has nearly as much range as EX. And I wasnt even thinking about focus baiting gief lights.
It would be really nice if Middle flats dmg, stun and range was made into current EXhand, when EXhand is made into Knockdown and no combo from lights. Then we would really have an EXTRA option. But why are they messing with Light SPD? Its not broken 
comeon!
At this point I’m honestly just worried that they’ll do something to st.MP after a lot of people complained about it.
Same here. I think a damage nerf or range nerf is inevitable. People bitched about jab spd and of course they listened.
My source told me that it was slightly nerfed. I’d take it with a grain of salt though since it didn’t come directly from Capcom or a rep of theirs.
They’re right, though, look at all those tournaments he’s dominating. Apart from that, all the pro player tier lists he’s high in too.
Something has to be done, surely!
Seriously, though. That’s fine, I’ll just throw my leisure time into Dota 2 and enjoy a game that has (relatively) sane balancing.
Yeah I dont know
hey snake eyez, the way I understand sped up, is that the move covers the same ground in less frames. This could entirely be understood as total frames if the move whiffs 100%. So they really need to tweak with the hit/block stun frames, for us to know.
As with all flats, you hit the target then do a little turn around dance to cover more distance. So there will always be Russian meat express posted for the taking, so to speak.
My thinking is, if LPGH or possibly all regular GH are sped up, they might be too good of an approach tool. Blows forward dash, far HK, cr.mk out of the water. As you can quickly position for a LP SPD. The way to balance that would be to reduce the range of the LP SPD in compensation. However, the range of the LP SPD is being reduced with balancing of the EXGH knockdown.
Think of this scenario with a faster LPGH. You have opponent in the corner, you confirm a jump, you quickly LPGH almost under them, PPP Lariat or even KKK Lariat into juggle EXGH.
I wish I had thought of this earlier. But all they needed to do was to increase the window of projectile invincibility of regular GH around the banish, in such a way, that you could not use the move on reaction like EXGH. But if you had started it up before they throw a projectile, you go into banish frames. which is +2 - Allowing you to AS or SPD.
EXGH starting up like HPGH is the way to go, but it could mean, you can’t punish fast recovery projectiles on reaction. Maybe make it so you can’t combo it from the light attacks because of ONE or TWO frame. Thus, Vangief can continue to o/s EXGH on counter hit for the knockdown.
And with GH being safe on hit. I think it has to -2 on hit, anything else like -1 or 0 Is way overpowered. So Big Z will always be at the threat of regular throws, and 3 frame normals and reversals. Unless you have the backing of Ultra 1, you would have to find yourself on the defensive often, ie. block, tech, backdash. Although, it would be interesting if they allowed him to retain the 2 bar GH+FA attack to somewhat add a little safety to the GH combo.
Although the scenario of GH being even ZERO on hit. Could mean a slower startup MP, else you could re-loop them if they jump, same with cr.lk and cr.lp.