Meanwhile Sagat gets ex tiger knee +0 on block, so people can mash dp on block into backdash from 2/3 of the screen while zoning you with high tiger shots that your 16 frame ex green hand can’t even hit correctly. Too bad it doesn’t knockdown on the first hit. It’s not hard to fix this attack…
I understand that capcom knows Zangief and T hawk are both grapplers but Gief is Gief, not partially Thawk. They are seperate characters and don’t need to be buffed/nerfed based on each other. This is probably where they got the idea that Zangief should not be able to combo traveling attacks from any light attacks and has to be up close to do combos into green hand exactly like how Thawk combos into Condor Spire. Also just like regular condor spire regular greenhand is unsafe on hit and both special attacks ex versions knockdown -_-
im looking the official changes and i dont understand why GHs cant combo from lights
current start up of lp and mp GH are 11 and 13, the new ones according to the change list are 9 and 11, so why the f*ck gh are not able to combo from lights? push back maybe? because unless they have changed the hitstun on the jabs or shorts doesnt make any bloody sense
In hit confirm form, there is no reason why it can’t combo from the lights. But with the speed up, it might be possible to hit confirm even HPGH from the lights.
The ambiguity here is that, the opponent won’t be able to confirm LPGH from MPGH. So one could sneak one in, here and there. You could probably even sneak in HPGH. Provided you have your hit confirms backed up with either Ultra 1 or EX Atomic Suplex. But don’t hope to land them, they will serve you well as empty threats.
What players are referring to, when they can’t combo from the lights, is counter poke or option select lights into the “safe” LPGH. As this is HIGHLY distance dependent.
Yes, you can counter poke so many far reaching limbs, BUT, the follow up LPGH will whiff as they retract their limbs. The alternative is to option select with MPGH to make up for the lack of range, but the outcome would be -3. This may be viable if it distances you after impact, well outside throw range. Just don’t try any regular GH combos against grappliers.
RIP Vangief - Zangief can no longer play footsies. So I’m guessing. But he takes the prize for the MOST CHANGED CHARACTER in SFIV history
It’s kind of funny. At first he was a grapplier, then he was a combo machine, and then a grapplier, and now in Ultra, under the directions of Combofiend, a combo machine.
option select MPGH which is your EXGH replacement, might be OK against some pokes and ranges. But unless they tweak with the displacement on impact. It’s going to SUCK. You need to be outside throw range and 3 framer range on impact.
After hit confirming GH, the pressure from the opponent’s 3 frame normals, and throws would be huge. I don’t see a way, zangi could play smart. The risk vs reward would be against him.
Snakeeyes can you test:
All o/s MPGH where you would have normally done o/s EXGH, and give us impact displacement, and thoughts on viability.
Specifically these two combos: far mp, far st.lk xx LPGH and cr.lp, cr.lp, cr.lp, far lk. far.lk xx LPGH or other long range variant.
The 1 frame link combo: cr.lp, cl.st.mp or cl.st.mk xx EXGH - Was always possible in vanilla, and will probably become a critical combo at high level play, as the only hit confirm into EXGH. Can be plinked.
I believe they only tweaked with the hit and block stun of far mk, so there probably is no change to startup frames, so no new combo potential. other than st.lp. st.mk
With the LPGH speed up, I wonder if after SPD-LPGH, whether far HP can catch jump outs. If so juggle into EXGH.
With the MPGH speed up, I wonder if SPD-MPGH, then KKK Lariat can catch jump outs.
Looks like it will be so much easier to tag them in pre-jump after SPD-LPGH, except delayed wakeup is gonna be a bitch. And delayed wakeup-reversal is a MEGA bitch - and should be illegal in my opinion.
SPD-MPGH looks like it has a lot going for it. Like the old SPD-LPGH, only it puts you point blank for cr.lp o/s sweep or Atomic Suplex, and possibly KKK or PPP Lariat or Neutral jump Head butt.
I wonder if with the slightly faster LPGH, whether you can banish projectiles with it on a consistent basis? Probably not.
I honestly just wanna hear Combofiends justification for this bullshit. The same person that says Gief has combos and Hawk controls the air lol. Simply unbelievable.
I was thinking the same things but i’m mostly concerned about cr lk still comboing, since Zangief is the combo grappler then i guess they will not touch that. Although he can’t combo into greenhand, combo grappler ftw.
Check to see how viable j.FP is now that they made the hurtbox bigger. It could affect some of our safe jumps.
See if we can still stand at comfortable ranges and catch problem pokes (Cammy st.RH, Akuma cr.RH, Fei cr.FP etc…) effectively with LP SPD still
Like Evans said, we may be able to get better meaties after LP SPD, LP GH. Maybe check if we can jail them with cr.LP (this would actually be nice, even though it’s already less effective with nerfed LP SPD…)
See if you can still react consistently to faster FB’s like EX hadoken, EX Sonic boom, Fuhiajin etc with 16 frame EX GH
I know time is limited, but try to test the effectiveness of U1/U2 50/50.
If there was ever a time to ask for a 3 frame cr.lk - NOW is the time!!! But if we can’t get that, +5 on hit, to make cr.lk a solid 2 frame link, and guaranteed combo off of a “jump” read, would be so sweet.
consistent cr.lk. cr.lk. cr.lk. cr.lk xx LPGH - would be pretty cool, just have to deal with the aftermath.
I’m only dreaming, but to handle Zangi’s EX meter problems during fights, I propose a re-working of the EX moves.
a) EX SPD has the extended range of LP SPD, maybe slightly more.
b) EX Atomic Suplex has the invincibility properties of EX SPD
c) Buff or rework the super like Running Bear Grab style.
d) Sick and tired of trading hits, introduce EX Lariat.
Before all this, Zangief only had ONE EX move. That was fine, he only needed ONE EX move. And now for the most part, he has NONE. He has NO EX moves.
Guess you’ll have to pretend that they are doing you a favor by jumping backwards and eventually cornering themselves.
Seriously though I need to talk to combofiend because these changes are ridiculous. I cannot see this character being playable in usf4, this crappy revamped garbage Zangief. What are we supposed to do with Gief? Well we will see on friday!
