i respect both opinions… in the sense that he had to be nerfed, but not this hard
His linkable normals push him back very far, the most he gets is s.HP - c.HP and he is out of range of any other normal. He can do c.MP - c.MP and he is out of range he can do s.MP - c.MP - c.LK then he is out of range (and c.LK is too slow to cancel to EX Zonk for a combo mid screen).
B-MP isn’t entirely invincible at all. He is only invincible to air attacks and only from the waist up and not during the 6F startup (which is admitedly very fast) the thing is that the move has 7 active frames and an amazing hitbox and hurtbox.
His invincible special is also extremely slow at 16F startup and had its damage nerfed and it’s pushback nerfed on block the move is -8F so it’ll get punished more often now. It isn’t terrible especially since it’s a 2hit move making it easy to tag cancel if you are willing to spend 2 bars, but it’s hardly a get out of jail free card or a move you use during pressure strings.
His backdash is shorter than ryus SLIGHTLY and the same otherwise. However overall that is below average compared to the majority of the cast. It is still significantly better than it was in SF4.
cl. st. HP links into c. MP, f. MP, c. HP.
f. MP can be linked to c. MP
The ability to link two heavy attacks, or three strong attacks is relatively unique. Additionally, he can set up juggles solo meterless with HK Ruffian Kick.
If you’re not smart enough to figure out I was referring to b. MP’s upper body invincibility, you’re hopeless.
Every character will have to spend two bars for a safe reversal after the patch. Get the fuck over it. There are many characters who have no reversal option at all. Even one requiring meter is an advantage.
His backdash is fine. If you want to see a useless backdash and terrible defensive options in general, look at Abel.
three strong attacks isn’t unique AT ALL. 2 Heavy attacks sure, though many of the cast can do that off of a single character juggle without a tag but they can’t do it on a standing opponent.
Guy - Cl MK cl MK cr MP far MP 4 strongs. Cl HK - Far HK or crouching HK.
Ryu - cr MP - cr MP - cr MK
Guile - cr MP cr MP - cr HK
Zangief - Cl MP - Far MP - Far MP
Dudley - fHK - cr MP - crMP (I’m sure he has more)
Cammy Cl HP - cr HP or far HP
Vega - cl HP - cr HP also cl HP - cr MK - cr MP
Balrog - cl HK - cr HP or cr HK
Ibuki - s.MP - s.MP - s.MK. and close HK - whatever she wants since it launches
That is only looking at a handful of the SF side, I didn’t even do all of the SF side or touch the Tekken side.
Cody can’t setup Solo meterless juggles with HK Ruffian Kick except in the corner and they are extremely space dependant and only work off of specific combos. Mid screen Cody can not follow up HK Ruffian at all in 2013 and in 2012 he could only do it with c.LK and it was a tough timing.
I did understand that you were reffering to b-mp, however you just said “invincible anti air” when it was a limited upper body invincibility to strikes. You can’t just say “invincible.” Also a lot of the tekken cast received buffs to their anti airs that give them similar properties (though I suspect Cody’s b-MP will still be around the top 5 best anti air normal in the game even if he can only follow it up after a counter hit it still has a great hitbox and tons of active frames and a fast startup)
I didn’t complain about EX Zonk having to be tag canceled. I merely pointed out it isn’t that great as a reversal, mostly due to the large start up. It’s still a good move that is better now in 2013 despite receiving a MASSIVE damage nerf and made easier to punish on block. The fact he now has the ability to actually perform some decent mid screen juggles even if they require meter now is a plus.
Clearly a bit of inflection gets lost in text. The point was that a character having that versatile a set of linking options is rare and very valuable. I’m honestly tired of arguing about this. If you want to continue thinking Cody will be bad after the patch, that’s your deal, but it cannot be determined definitively at all at this juncture and my feeling is that he will remain very well rounded. Hell, I might pick him up myself.
We can agree that ibuki is ruined though right?
At least you admit it is your feeling and dropped the whole “I disagree with you therefor you are bad”
We have a difference of OPINION sure. Nothing I said though was misinformation.
I don’t think Cody will be BAD. I just don’t think there is going to be a reason to pick him over other characters who can do what he does and more. That doesn’t mean he is bad. Not being good is not the same as being bad.
And I’m open to being wrong, when Cody first came out I thought he’d be mid tier as well since I didn’t know his boost chains would be safe and his c.LK would have a farther hitbox than it does in SF4. I was wrong then, perhaps I’ll be wrong again. However this time I’m a bit more sure as I have more information on his abilities.
Perhaps with the right gem loadout to give him the meter he’ll need for EX Zonk, and an impatient opponent who likes to hit buttons Cody will do very well.
Either way, most of the other characters I really like are still very strong. Chun, Law, Julia, Lei(not sure he is strong or not but he got a major overhaul and lots of buffs.), Rolento, Raven, Alisa, Guy, and Yoshimitsu(Probably still ass lol). Even if Cody ends up being a character that doesn’t excel in any area that another character performs almost as well I still have quite a stable of characters I enjoy that I could pick from.
Well to be clear I still think you’re probably bad (you may be decent though and just whiny, to give you the benefit of the doubt), and your post did contain alot of misinformation, poor and biased argumentation, and overall had the tone of scrubbiness seen commonly on Eventhubs. I just don’t feel like bothering to argue with you anymore, and I’m not going to.
Without a doubt.
You’ve yet to point to anyone something that was actual misinformation or “uninformed”. You’ve pointed out things that were only differences in opinion. Nothing that was actually wrong factually.
If anything I’ve proven your lack of information with things like your statement that “2 heavies or 3 strongs are rather unique” or that you thought Cody could follow up HK Ruffian juggles solo meterless consistently.
He can followup HK Ruffian consistently. Your execution is bad. I made clear that you misinterpreted the post stating his linking abilities are “relatively unique”. Perhaps I should’ve phrased it to ensure that someone foraging for pointless argument fodder couldn’t misconstrue. You’ll excuse me. When the internet is starting to make me lose faith in humanity it’s time to quit.
Out side of the corner? how can he follow up HK Ruffian other than c.LK which wont work now. Please enlighten me.
Also in the corner it is dependent the combo performed. Simply doing say s.HP - HK Ruffian you can’t follow it up at all. s.HP - c.HP - HK Ruffian you can do c.MP but you only have a 1F window. c.MP - c.MP - HK Ruffian only works if you hit the opponent while they are standing. f-MP - c.MP - HK Ruffian you can juggle with a c.LP (or LK currently) but not anything else.
Mid screen NOTHING but c.LK will work.
As for “misinterpreted”
Your exact words. There is nothing to misinterpret you said linking two heavy or three strongs is relatively unique. E.G. Not many characters can do it. I showed you examples of over 1/3rd of the Street Fighter side of the cast that is capable of doing it.
Only thing I am pretty bummed about (almost furious actually) are the jump cancellable moves on block being taken away T^T
You know that stuff was super unsafe right?
Record Juri doing cr.hp jc cross-up. Then play back, block cr.hp and just walk forward a bit. Congrats, you just learned how to full combo punish Juri’s jump cancel shenanigans on block.
That trick is only good when you know cr.hp is going to hit (anti-air, punish, corner combo, reset). But on block it never did anything good except on day 1, when Juri’s dive kick was safe enough on block to use it after a jump cancel.
Yeah, I know. But I just liked it, for my own gimmicky reasons. T^T
But after reading more from the Juri threads, I am over it (all of her changes). Ready for SFxT2013 already.
Juri’ll remain alright after the update. A little damage nerf but I suppose that’s to more enforce her role as a battery.
I don’t see this Heihachi change in the OP:
Heihachi
-
• Heaven’s Wrath LK: Counterhit hitbox is only on the leg.*
-
• Heaven’s Wrath MK: Counterhit hitbox is only on the torso.*
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• Heaven’s Wrath HK: Startup changed from 1 frames to 7.*
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• Counterhit hitbox is on both the leg and torso.*
That is a major nerf isn’t it?**
the more recent changes for the tekken characters havn’t been added here yet. It’s coming, slowly… fml T.T
Honestly, I was planning on dropping Cody in 2013 anyway, but the latest video showing the patch changes shows how little people (including the developers) understand the game. Boost chains were generally safe, hit confirmable, and did decent damage (but not good damage. It was rare to get much more than 400 even with 3 meters). However, there are a lot of Tekken chains that were almost as potent and I think people will find that those will start to dominate the game. Look at a character like Hwoarang and his OS frame trap set ups (that will only become more powerful in 2013). He’s going to have less issues getting in because pokes in general are getting severely nerfed. They’re getting less range (Ryu’s c. mk comes to mind) and chaining them into anything will leave you at a severe disadvantage. Jin is also going to be insanely good in 13’. He has s. mk into SS upper as a safe hit confirm that can lead to huge damage, and now his anti air game will be seriously scary since he can do leaping side kick on reaction far easier. Even if they tone down it’s combo potential or add landing frames, you will still have the switch cancel option that starts on an attack that does more damage than a heavy. Tech rolls can be punished with backwards jumping RH into death. They even gave him better fireballs and ryu’s c. mp for no apparent reason. I am seriously planning to abuse the shit out of Jin and make the scrubs hate him more than they ever hated Cody.
I personally don’t mind too much that they nerfed far reaching light attacks, but they should’ve given some of these characters a lot more to make up for it. The majority of the Capcom characters getting nerfed are seriously not even half as good as most people are making them out to be. The severity of the nerfs tells me they listen too much to people who don’t know what they’re talking about. Cody, for instance, is basically at Megaman level or lower as of 2013. His mix up game is destroyed (the overhead nerf took away the last decent tool he had), and the only safe option with any range is either c. lk or c. mp into criminal upper which does pitiful damage and will scale horrendously into switch cancels. He isn’t a competitive character anymore. Honestly, the only reason I’m pissed off about it is because I paid money for the DLC and now there is an essentially one less character in the cast that you can use if you want to win. In a fair world, they would delete him off the roster and add Hagger or something.
People cry so much about boost chains, but honestly the only thing that made them decent is that you could start them off of fast, safe pokes. Once they nerfed the range and speed of light pokes, they just became inferior tekken chains. Listen, just ask yourself what is the difference between cody’s ABC into launcher and Hwoarang’s 4 hit chains that lead to launcher or hunter hawk? Especially if they nerf the range and speed of Cody’s c. lk? The answer is: It’s way worse.
“because I paid money for the DLC and now there is an essentially one less character in the cast that you can use if you want to win.”
… -.-