tested … you’re absolutely right !!
i love that !
so basicly all versons of rocket plus (oiled) EX dive are unthrowable ! … awesome!
why should rocked be untrowable? its absolutly throable that was a false statement were i blamed samurai drew for it (you see why i told you not to make false statements?g)
only EX-DDT is (OILED) untrowable but well its more then nothing
you can test it with ables tornadothrow it will ALWAYS beat hakans throw since ables is 100% throw imune!
i just tested it … it is deffinately unthrowable (with and without oil … with and without EX)
pls test it yourself as well … see if you get similar or different results …
see testing method above …
if you get the “reversal” sign … and you still cant throw then yes ur right …
but if u dont… it means u didnt do it fast enough …
also make sure you dont get oil slide by mistake …
your test is wrong try to beat ables trow thats a guaranteed test if able throw whiffs its throw imune
you cannot test a throw immune move with a throw immune move!!!
in that case which ever move is slower and has longer active frames wins … (basicly until the throw immunity runs out) … hakans throw immunity would run out before abels in the case of rocket
you need to test it with regular throw !
ofcourse (oil ) EX dive would beat abels throw because the start up is slow and it would connect after abels the active and throw invinsible frames have finished !
ables throw has 5 frames startup it is imun from the startto throw start hakans throw atemp and reakt with ables tornado if both would be imun both player would wiff (well timed) but that never hapensbelive it or not i hafe no fun in agrguing things i already KNOW WELL with you belive me or test it correkt
to prove that ur argument is further false
try zangief …
normal throw … into meaty SPD …
hakan will win with " reversal" every time !
because hakans start up is slower (3 frames) and zangief’s is 2 and active for 2 … if you do it correctly … hakan should winn EVERY TIME … because hakans start up is slower … are you saying now that zangief is not throw immunewith SPD ?!
u cannot test throw immunity on command throws ~!!! pls understand this !
hakan is only immune from startup to throw ( the 3 frames) … any move that is throw immune with a slower startup will obviously win …
just think of this …
zangief … start up 2 active 2 (immunity 2 frame)
hakan start up 3 active 2 ( immunity 3 frame)
abel satart up 5 active 2 (immunity 5 frame) …
hakans EX oil dive (oiled) is 22 frames start up and 4 frames active !! (22 frame throw immunity)
zangiefs spd loses to both hakan and abel
hakans beats zangief but loses to abel
abel beats both
hakans (oil) EX dive beats everything and its mother …
i hope this makes more sense!!!
Hakans SPD attemps can be thrown PERIOD
Yes…i agree with reaper…What happened to me was when you do EX-rocket ( you see yellow…right?)…and still the opponent normal throw me. This happens to me more than once…I am pretty sure…
I have to say that the timing of the throws have to be perfect. One frame too soon or later will cause the rocket to win. Especially when you have oiled cause the range is not a problem.
The yellow ex color is the indicator that my rocket is out but got thrown.
Reaper why are you blaming me like it’s some sort of naughty crime, lol.
IT WAS DREWS FAULT, HE SAID IT, NOT ME!
I think Southerneasternoil made a good point. There is something strange going on with his grabs however, I think Emperor has made some valid points. I’ve never had this issue come up in a match, and I’ve played a lot of games. Yes I’ve had EX rocket beaten by throws, but NEVER an Oiled rocket.
And this is all from point blank anyway, if someone tries to meaty grab you unoiled on wakeup you know you can backdash ultra 1? There’s one option. If someones pressuring with jabs into throw, if you backdash unoiled, and their throw whiffs, it’s a free cr.jab > lp slide. When oiled you have a great backdash escape, you can also backdash cancel into a normal to punish the throw attempt into a combo! Hell, you can even mash F.HK to catch backdashers, tech throws and go under neutral jumps. There’s more to Hakan than wakeup Oil Rocket or mashing on Oil Rocket thinking you’re Zangief.
I don’t think this discussion needs to go on, Emperor has done his testing, and I’m pretty sure he knows what he’s doing. Reaper you just like to argue with everything.
Can we get some proper 2012 discussion going on now? There’s a day left to go so whatever thoughts you have now would be a good time to post them up. If you want to continue this throw debate take it to the general discussion thread.
well i’ve done my testing and you can believe or not believe all you want
bottom line is …
all rockets have throw invincibility … which is 3 frames long … after that he has his active frames which are 2
in addition
oiled EX rocket is also invincible to throws but for 22 frames then you have the 4 active frames … but hes in the air anyway by then so it doesnt matter
wake up rocket beats all the following meaty after untechable knockdown …
- normal throws
- any throw immune command throw with a start up shorter than 3 frames (i.e gief and hawk’s spds)
it loses to throw immune command throws with a start up longer than 3 frames … (such as abel’s tornado throw with a 5 frame start up)
its not rocket science …
and like i said before the reason oiled EX dive always wins is because its the longest startup throw immune command throw in the game with 22 frame start up
i really dont appreciate this “he said she said tone” … and i dont appreciate stubbornness either …
i also dont like the term false information … who the hell made you the street fighter bible?!
when i found a mistake i went and tested it … and i corrected it … which is what healthy discussions are all about …
but this attitude is extremely childish … refusing to test things and just basing them on your stubbornness will not get you anywhere …
and as for the yellow spark … it is not the indicator … the indicator is the word “reversal” that would appear … indicating that you did your move at the earliest possible frame …
and i mentioned before … make sure you dont get ex slide instead … you would still get a yellow spark but still be thrown …
the other factor you need to consider is the range without oil … this is a major factor as alot of character’s normal throws have better range than it … so if ur out of your throw range while active but in their range … you will get thrown … this does not happen with oil as the range is much better …
anyway this has gone way off topic …
as drew said … lets go back to talking about 2012 !!
2012 tomorrow …
first thing im looking forward to is …
forward lvl 3 FA …then dash into coward crouch, reset with LK from the other side !! yeah !!! (just because i can :P)
also with the new oil dives … i want to test who it would work on from the cast that it didnt work on before 
and then comeup with new setups for my dives because of the speed change … i assume oil slide setups will be the same which is good 
lol Japan, someone in that Japanese site posted something along the lines of ‘‘Hakan is still a comedy character and still the weakest’’ LOL
lol at the coward reset just because you can ^…I think I’ll be playing about with this first, I mean even if it turns out to be not that effective, it must be fun to play around with! But I honestly think there will be some good uses.
Fingers crossed about Oil Dive working on every character. IF, it turns out to not be true, then that would be such a massive letdown. prays
I think reaper over-react a bit. However, this is german way of saying things.
Still…i don’t agree with EMPEROR. I have also played a lot of games and always found out that ALL rocket got beaten by normal grab. Like I said distance, perfect timing is required to get grabbed…
One more arguments is I do mash random rocket in the game oiled or not oiled. So, the chance that I encounter this situation is more likely to happen to me than anybody else.
EMPOROR said all rockets are invincible to throw but drew already admit it that He got thrown a few time doing un-oiled EX-rocket. What is the logic in this.
Ohhhhhhhh shit dat 2012 is here.
Just booted into training mode…a shiny oily big red greeted me first up.
I WAS SO HAPPY.
SO. DAMN. HAPPY.
The patch is out now. So yeah all this stuff about Hakans buffs are true also something that I found and am not sure if it was mention in the list of buffs but now you can lk. oil dive after a focus crumple. EX oil dive goes over crouching opponents at a certain range. M. oil dive and H. oil dive also go over opponents at a certain range same for Flying Oil Spin M and H versions. L. oil dive however does not at any given range also applies for L. Flying Oil Spin. Not sure but I think from what I am seeing oiled version of Oil rocket might have gotten some range as well I could be wrong. I am happy for the buffs but still one thing is lacking one thing and that is a Cancel-able Flying Oil Spin :(. Let me know if you guys found out anything new that i didn’t.
I just did an uncrouchable oil dive against Honda and Yun… this pleases me.
lk dive uncrouchable setup: slide followup, hold up to neutral jump, OS lk oil dive. It’s perfect. Worked on Honda, Yun, and Ryu 100% of the time. I had to check 3 times to make sure crouch and auto block were on
can you post a video or something?? just wondering
oh snap correction on the Oil Dive during focus attack crumple L. M. H. EX all catch opponent during crumple.
I would if i had the equipment. Mark my words, Oil dives and oil at start will put Hakan Mid Tier
What is the point of doing dive after crumple? Are there other way to punish harder? Like F.mp+ hp slide press. Of course, Ex-dive is the most powerful move ( 240 when oiled).
One thing worth to do would be f-mp followed by dive after crumpling opponent. If i remember correctly this was character specific and opponent can reverse it mashing DPs.