I might have some different insight on this considering ive been “unconventional” characters for some time …
first off i dont believe in tiers so much … it has a certain truth to it … but its not absolute … in fact … tier lists not only vary from character to character … in my opinion they vary from player to player as well … not only that … they also vary from opponent to opponent … its alot more complex than what many think …
best example was kazunokos yun tier list … now u cant base what he said on everyone because not everyone is kazunoko … and certainly not on every yun player … according to some of the top yun players … sagat and gief give them alot of trouble … on the other hand kazunoko put the juri match up as 8-2 yet when u look online … hes been battered buy juri on occasion … so its just not that simple …
but we have to face reality here … hakan … well … let me try and put this in better perspective…
a character is considered good or not based on the tools he has … and there are common things all characters evaluated by … so here goes:
strenght and vitality:
one of the best thing about hakan ( as opposed to the other characters i use … juri and dhalsim) … is that he can take a beating … and still be at a managable health … which is something great considering what he lacks in other areas …
wakeup options:
technicly people evaluate this by seeing if a character has an invincible move to projectiles, throw, or normals …or all three… and weather that move is safe or can be made safe … the start up frames of the move also plays a major role… as well as its EX meter price … now lets look at a few characters in that aspect and compare them with hakan…
(this is ofcourse excluding the common factors such as focus, backdash, jumps, supers and ultras)
- ryu’s shoryuken: invincible on wakeup, anti everything except projectiles (but EX also anti projectile), 3 frame start up so you cant safe jump him, and can be FADCed on block so its safe … theoreticly … that is the best type of wake up in the game because it coveres everything …
- sagat uppercut: almost as good with the exception that it has a 5 frame startup meaning you can safe jump him … so good but not great
- dhalsims back teleport: serves all purposes but can be easily option selected, has long recovery, plus is worthless in the corner… (another thing to consider)
- juri’s pinwheel: it costs 1 EX meter to be invincible to attacks and projectiles, but still vulnerable to throws on the first frames… it also has a slow start up easily safejumped, it can be FADCed but at the cost of 2 more EX bars … and 3 EXes is a huge price to pay…plus it has rediculous recovery (-14 on block)
on the otherhand … lets look at
hakan’s rocket : needs EX to be invincible on startup to normals,
all versions of rocket are invincible to throws however without oil the range is so poor that it tends to lose,it can also be baited out by neutral jump or a delayed jump, yes it swallows normal safe jump attempts but why would u ? it cannot be cancled, it doesnt catch moves that are airbourne ( such as juri’s cl.MK which is in the air for the 1st 6 frames), tends to whiff alot without oil … needs oil to have a decent range …
you can see how hakan is at a disadvantage here …
anti-airs (or dealing with air attacks):
this is evaluated by : hitboxes, startups, damage, invincibility, tradablity, and avoidance options…
lets face it … hakans normals in this area cannot be compared to comething like sakura’s cr.HP or juri’s cr.MP or dhalsim’s b.HK …
although the hitbox on hakans st.HP is great lets face it … the startup is extremely slow … you need to almost predict the jump before sticking it out …
you can argue that >+LP is good but it trades alot plus it doesnt hurt
but looking at hakans mechanics as a whole u face other factors
cr.HP and >+MP make jumpins whiff if timed right… now yes that isnt a punish but it is great to have … the downside is it can be option selected
his coward crouch is another way to whiff stuff but that has recovery …so you will almost certainly be hit after …
oil slide is a great way to run away, not many option selects get it in time … however … dive kicks stuff it … (and we have alot of divers in this game) not to mention some dumb moves like vegas j.MP and i think its blankas mk or hk im not sure …
the only truely amazing antiair hakan has is ultra 2 … 0 startup and alot of damage … but for some stupid reason i cannot explain … it doesnt seem to beat zangiefs ultra 2 … LOL
on the other hand if you have oil … u get one more option … FADNC … and honestly thats one of the most scariest pnishes to jumpins when mastered… just watchout for t.hawks condor dives,juri’s divekicks and akumas demon flip palm or throw (armor breaker hell)
weather faster startup on dives in 2012 will makethem more viable antiairs or not is yet to be seen…
options after knockdown “offense”:
the way i like to evaluate this is by: the presense of a fireball, ambiguous crossup option, safe jump option, option selects, safe meaty attacks, fuzzy guard option, punishing back dash, and punishing reversals …add to that true strings and frame traps for momentum…
my personal view on this is … apart from projectiles… and the matchup dependant safejump option … everything else is 50/50 and cant be judged by the character alone but rather by the matchup hes facing as well …
although hakan has to be my first “NON-projectile” characacter … i came to realize that this is where he excels the most … but still everything he does is a huge risk … now alot of what im about to say is based on AE knowledge but ver.2012 will improve hakan greately in this aspect …
hakan currently has no useful true strings apart from cr.LK string on oil … meaning … he technicly cant trick you with the occasional frame trap as freely as other characters unless hes oiled … this however will be the biggest game changer with a +4 st.LP now … although this is good , the move is not cancelable intop itself and the timing will be tight but still doable… its still alot more limited than other characters with multiple true strings (like cammy, rose, and “fuck long”) but with this new ability he will do a better at punishing jumps, many more reversals, even throw attempts …
hakan also has great setups for meaty slide … which in many occations the only true escape would be backdash which can be punished by a rocket …
some characters (like gen’s MK and HK up kicks) would have their reversal completely whiff … making the threat more deadly
in addition he has some of the nastiest fuzzy guard setups … however the punishability after backdash or back teleport is extremely high (personally i was hoping the recovery would be faster in 2012 … but there was no mention of any change on that so oh well) the downside is … they dont work on : cammy, dhalsim , hakan, yun, yang, honda or blanka… weather the new hitbox will change that or not is still to be determined …
the downside is that both the meaty slides and the fuzzy dives can both be punished usually by the same reversal … (example: ryu… SHORYUKEN !! .com ) …
but thats where the mind game comes in … and thats where the player specific tiers come in (in my opinion)
also i have to hand it to the community for digging deep into his knockdown options by implementing the ambiguous crossup HK setups and his safe jumps… great for whiffing reversals and further limiting the opponents options …
the one problem hakan has is if he was in the offense and the opponent decided to play the defensive card with a health advantage … its just not easy to get in with the big red lobster without taking a risk …but the same can be said about every character … its just harder for hakan though …
zoning:
this is basicly dependant on 3 things in my opinion: far range normals, projectiles, and safe specials (including teleports)
hakan has no fireball…
his normals are decent enough to keep a 2 big square distance most of the time … which is good …
but with a nerfed cr.HP (-3 on hit ) im afraid that will be slightly hurt … but considering his offensive game is greatly improved that might not be a big problem
on the other hand … his specials arent that great for keeping distance … however i feel the improved jumpability of his MK and HK dives will play a new role in this …( for example … a string into them … and if they crouch ur safe on the other side … something to think about … im a dhalsim main … i like to run away lol)
command grabs:
this is looked at from startup, invincibility to normals and/or throws
this goes without saying considering hakan is a grapple based character to a degree (i think hes more oil based … doesnt dissolve in water
… but you get what i mean)…
the fact that his rocket is a 3 framer makes it less viable than gief or t.hawk’s 2 frame spds … that 1 frame just makes a whole lot of difference …
although his rocket is throw invincible … the range without oil tends to make it lose to many other throws … and without oil … lets face it … the range is crap
EX is also invinsible to normals
now with oil …
the rocket range becomes huge … making it one of hakans deadliest tools … especially with all the possoble followups after the knockdown…
adding to that… EX oil dive becomes invinsible to throws when oiled … (something to consider)
when u compare it with some bullshit like abels tornado throw … yes its slower but the range makes it a mean tool … same for yun, yang, feilong and any other idiot with a command grab apart from hakan (oil less)
**projectiles (having them and dealing with them): **
well we know hakan has no projectiles …(although i always wished he could squirt oil on the floor like subzeros ice trap n make people slip and fall … wouldnt that be sick ? :P)
he has a few ways to get through them …
dive cancled into Coward crouch is a great tool for building meter and intimidating the opponent
lp slider goes through most projectiles… and EX slider goes through all … EX with oil is the best anti projectile zoning move in the game … period … ( even better than cammy’s EX drill imo)
hakans jump is retarded … alot of times things tend to hit him because of it but on the other hand its good in a sense that the opponent has to calculate their options slightly differently because of it …
the problem is … oiling is alot harder with fireballs … especially without EX meter (EX oil is projectile invincible) …
EX oil into coward crouch is also a great thing to turn the tides …
overheads:
nope
dive kicks:
nope
teleports:
nope
**character specific mechanics: **
basicly looking at something unique to the characters core style that is uncomparable with the rest of the cast like:
- dhalsims long range limbs
- juris multi fireball mechanic
- abels roll
- goukens counters
- gens stance changes (which change his walk speed and jump arc as well for people who didnt know)
well hakan has oil …
and alot of people can consider oil a game breaking mechanic … to a degree …
with oil:
- u can technicly combo from a lvl 1 FA … no other character can do this …
- u have damage buffs to all your moves
- your throw range increases …
- your dash and backdash are just beastly … add to that sliding into coward crouch … god knows how thats gonna work … lol (still think it might just be a gimmick but we’ll have to wait and see) … plus i hear his backdash is better even … i wonder … (although the increased distance might mess up some oil dive setups … just an after thought)
- he is the only character that can FADNC … which is just fricken beautiful …
- you get a true string cancelable normal cr.LK
basicly its like playing with another character altogether…
and considering you will start this way in ver.2012 for a good 10 seconds will make him a beast … unlike before where u had to cower away to get a little bit of oil and have your momentum …
the only downside to oil … is … well its limited to time …
and again … this goes back to character skill maintain his oil status and opponent knowledge to prevent it …
you just simply cant use hakan like any other character … and thats probably what puts alot of people off of him …
ease of excecution:
ok i have to say … hakan … is just … NOT EASY TO USE AT ALL …
he may have all these nice tools on paper … but come to the practical sense … you will come to realize that …
almost everything is rediculously frame dependant (meaty slides and fuzzy rockets for example) … sometimes being one frame short can cost u a whole lot of health … and its hard to bring it back with hakan if the opponent takes the defensive approach…
alot of times you will get your rockets instead of slides and your showers instead of dives … it gets stupid at points … its rare and the more you use him the less it happens but it just goes to show how hard it is to be on point with him …
you just cant compare his combos to something silly like ryus uppercut FADC ultra for example … with hakan its just alot more technical ( and gimmicky ) than that … and thats another reason why people are put off by him …
not to mention your occasional setup that would fail just because you lost your oil at that one last frame … making your oil rocket back to shit range again …
or losing oil when spamming cr.LK just to realize that its gone and u get hit with a reversal … it just hurts man …
so bottom line is … weather hakan is at the bottom of the tier list or not … it doesnt mean hes bad … it just means he might be slightly harder to use…
when u look at how this game works … and when u look at it on a matchup to matchup basis … the differences become extremely subtle …
also … with the general rebalancing … its safe to say that although the character tools will be a major factor in determining the outcome … it wont be as horrid as AE where yun, yang seth and feilong just had it too good over every everyone else … and hopefully in ver 2012. character skill, and matchup knowledge will play a far bigger role.
damn look at the time … lol
i hope this was insightful …