2012, Year of the Oil

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
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Yeah that’s true it might have changed since then, I hope it has…and I also hope there’s some hidden stuff (hopefully good things!) seeing what Kim said today. Also not sure who the Hakan player is, it might be Wildcat, since nobody recognised him, and that level of Hakan is…more than rare, but a sight to behold.

Alright, to get some excitement back I’m going to list some of the things to try out, starting with the less obvious:

Jumping HK into LK Oil Dive - Due to LK Oil Dive being 5 frame faster, will this mean the uncrouchable will be a whole lot easier? Would be gold.

F.MP > HK Oil Dive - Okay so I know they didn’t mention it in the final changelist…but there’s only one way to find out if the speed was actually adjusted! I’ll be crossing my fingers when I try this out!

Anti-air super - This will be fun, let’s see how much time we have to confirm this. Also try LK Oil Dive as well.

Cr.Hp - just how punishable is this thing now?

Oil Dive stun and damage - Let’s see if they did put the damage down and by how much!

Guard position sliding - How easy is this to do? And how does it work on someones wake up?

St.jab - Err, technical stuff, I guess I’ll see if the hit frame advantage was changed, and how good it is at pinning…doubt it will be in the same league as cr.lk to be fair. Also surely they’ll have changed st.lk as well?? Boo.

And oh yeah, the new Hakan tackle! They actually buffed this move, although the wording is a little confusing! Will be testing this out as an anti air! Could be Hakan new go to anti air move, no more situational stuff? Wow.

If there’s anything else be sure to post up! The more of us try these things out in ten days time, the quicker we’ll get some answers!

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Got a feeling that cr.h is about as punishable as a Fei’s pre-2012 slightly deep lp 2nd rekka on block. In other words, jabs won’t touch him but crouching mediums would, if they can get it within 2 frames.

Pretty much the Hakan tackle change means that once we do that move, on the first frame of the startup, his hurtbox would immediately compressed to the hurtbox he has on his active frames, which is around his chest area if Hakan is standing still. I’m guessing doing late crossup is much easier now since we won’t get hit out of the tackle as often.

I’m thinking the hurtbox around his arms when doing an oil dive would prevent the move from being an anti-air at really close range.

Maybe someone check if there is any changes to the grab invincibility of ex oil dive?

Right now I really want to know at how close do we have to be near them to fly over with mk and hk oil dives. Their " really close to the opponent" better have a better range than his unoily rocket.

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It says on the final changelist that MK kick startup has been buffed, and MK and HK will go over crouching opponents like you said ^…but err, what is the point in that, why would you use HK dive from close range? Nobody uses a fireball close range, aside from cr.mk > Hadoken. Even with MK, it’s throw invincible yeah…but are you really going to mash this during a blockstring or use it on wakeup? I know longshot posted some thoughts on that a couple months back but, I dunno, can’t see the reasoning. If you’re going to buff the startup of something, why not go and change HK for a better anti projectile super, now that could be beneficial! Instead of LK and MK. With MK what is a faster super going to achieve? Very odd.

Ha, maybe it means there’s a pseudo mixup now and Super is now uncrouchable if timed right. Trololol

Anyway, it might seem like I’m ranting, but some things I just don’t understand. Just re-reading this, Super has lost it’s hurtbox at the arm on startup…which is a little confusing, because LK Super is already invincible before release, unless that’s what they’re referring to (after release)…which means anti-air is definitely what they’re pushing with the new super. That could be dirty.

Also changing the hitbox downward on all versions surely makes the chance of anti-air lk dive a no no? The hurtbox thing was never an really issue, it was just the startup, but I don’t know how the hitbox thing relates to jump attacks. But oh well, if Hakan tackle is even better as an anti air then that’s awesome! It’s as good an anti air as you can get sincing you can sneak under them if you do it late. insert smiley (why can’t i choose smileys anymore!?)

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i spoke to ono today at the fightclub a little about hakan …
and i told him that the cr.HP nerf really hurts because it was a really good tool to close the gap sometimes …
his response was this …
he was like with his start up oil and the other buffs he recieved the dev team felt that his offensive game was really improved alot and because of that they wanted to give him a little of a draw back … basicly so that hakan users can rethink their strategies (basicly to keep the game fresh so to speak) … then he was on about that hakan has other tools to get in…

on the other hand …
personally im putting the game and hakan on hold till release because it seems the frame data for alot of his specials has changed… therefore alot of the setups that i spent along time trying to learn will be completely different… soo theres no point using him till hes finalized (so to speak)

i am really loving kof 13 its just a beautiful game… amazing combo system , lovely graphics, quite fast paced but no too fast…just the right speed. its awesome!!
and strange enough as much as i hated mvc3 n thought it was garbage … im acctually really liking umvc3 … seems like its more zoning friendly and the air game is more punishable … and the meter build isnt as fast so it seems easier to follow … ( im getting too old for this >__> )

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Wow! You actually got to ask Ono himself! It’s great to see that he had input on all the characters and the reasoning of why he changed even certain things like CR.HP. Mad respect to Ono. I guess now I see where he’s coming from, although the move got a worse frame advantage there’s new things to try out with it like the two hit focus breaker. That all he said? Did u ask anything else?

Anyway Great stuff EMP Cow! lol

Also, the setup thing, well you’re right, LK and EX Oil Dive setups will have to be adjusted, and we’ll need to be double checking on MK and HK. Looks like I’ll be making a Turkish Wrestler part 2 vid. Man that was a bitch to make haha

Also if you guys do me, well everyone a favour, when 2012 comes out can we get some volunteers to help find out who Oil Dive does and doesn’t fly over on wakeup? if we get 3 or 4 people to test out say ten or so characters at release we can get that list up pretty quickly, rather than having someone slog through them all. Probably other stuff to test but cant think right now.

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Man I absolutely will spend a lot of time in the lab.
It is official that there are changes to be discovered and I hope that we can find more good stuffs for Hakan.
I am really excited to put 2012 Hakan in action. I hope Wildcat fell that way too cause i miss him. ^^

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about the volunteer work …
im up for it …
i usually do charts for everything anyway … lol so give me a pm and we can search it together … been meaning to work on my own hakan vid now that i feel i got a good grasp of what he’s capable of (something similar to the dhalsim tutorial and my older juri ones :slight_smile: ) … but with the changes its not worth it at the moment till i realize what exactly changed and how its going to impact his overall game plan

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Lol wildcat has been playing umvc3, saw him on the leaderboards :stuck_out_tongue:

He’ll be back no doubt, although with PP and BP not being reset, who knows if there will be much more replays :confused:

And good stuff guys, with supposed hidden stuff hopefully if we work together we can find things out a lot quicker :slight_smile:

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Hhmm…I think the HK super going over enemies is for crazy sagat players spamming low tiger shots? But yeah I can’t fathom the idea of the need for a faster MK super besides a possible uncrouchable setup.

I think the reason for losing his hurtbox around his arm during super is probably in case we effed up and pressed the wrong kick button so we may get a second chance. Or maybe…since lk and mk got a faster startup we can actually used lk super as an anti-projectile at a closer range as well. I’m thinking along the lines of say…a Yun player who while is a good player, enjoys spamming palms and feints. So we are down to a drop of health and the Yun still has around 250 hp left. We are midscreen away and he is at the corner mashing palms and feints to taunt to us. We could use Ex slide but it won’t finish him off and leaves us both at a 50/50 on wakeup. So if we use lk super when we notice his famous startup it will: catch him if he feints since his feint has a total of 25 frames and our super has 9, or he actually uses palm but due to his projectile being right next to him and narrower than our arms, we would still grab him out of palm. And we win. Maybe it can work on point blank sonic booms as well, knowing Guiles.

I just hope that awesome hypothesis I just mention is true.

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Awww…based on the images of Hakan’s grab boxes in Super and AE, it would seem while his super allows him to jump further, it actually has a smaller horizontal grab box than oil dive.

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Hmm, I was just thinking…if in 2012 you could do jump HK > LK dive as an uncrouchable, wouldn’t that mean…since Super is now 9 frame startup (same as LK version) that you could do a deep HK with enough hitstun which would make the super uncrouchable?

Probably some permitting factors but it would be pretty amusing!

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i doubt it …
only because the screen freeze when the super is activated seems to eliminate the fuzzy guard … (or so i think …) … i could be wrong tho…
have u guys ever come up with garanteed setups for landing super in the current version?

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Against most characters, you can focus crumple, FADC, super. Only a couple very short characters slip under it. Other than that? No.

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Yeah you’re probably right it’s unlikely that it will work, super can’t be used as an uncrouchable setup so this is probably a similar situation.

Nah, no guaranteed ways, there is definitely ways of landing it by baiting, for instance baiting neutral jumps and punishing with super…but it was never that easy because you needed decent timing. With a faster startup though, who knows how easy this will be in 2012 ver. Also it could be better at punishing…but I’m not too clued up on what moves in the game are -9, lol

@Mordie - Hmm I wonder if this is changed now and it works on every character? Doubt it because I didn’t see any mention of super trajectory being altered in the final changelist…

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exactly … those aint fuzzy guard …
i explored that quite alot and couldnt find fuzzy guard setups… i dont think that will change either … considering the screen freeze on activation will always be there

however… i dont think i ever tried activating super immediately after an untechable knockdown … and getting the spark to go away before the opponents wake up … i think that way u still get the fuzzy guard frame … but timing the super release would be tricky … worth a shot tho … off to training mode … lol

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Well you could do deep jump HK > LK oil dive uncrouchable in Super and AE, but you had it hit it so deep for it to work, so it wasn’t used that much…maybe now with a faster startup it might be easier and could be a decent mixup, only 9 days to test it out!

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Cool, Seth Killian confirmed that not all changes had been documented on Eventhubs. I think this means that his original oil dives changes, mk with lk startup and hk with mk startup is still there but just not mentioned in the final notes.

If they did made changes to his damage and stun, I’m sure that it means quite literally that we lost hk and ex oil dive and lk and mk oil dives now uses a different kick button instead. So mk dive has lk startup, damage and stun and hk dive has mk startup, damage and stun.

Everyone start testing everything and see if there is something about Hakan that the Devs didn’t mention at all.

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im sure most people know this and im curios my self. You can time the super perfectly and it will act just like a normal jumping grab. (even if there ducking it will grab them on wake up)

why don’t people use this? I have no idea how they would escape…

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You mean uncrouchable oil dives with Super? Personally I don’t use that often especially with Super cos there is only a 1 frame opening and its really hard to time it right. I still haven’t manage to pull it off yet. If you’re too late you would fall and roll in front of them for over 50 frames. If you’re too early, you might be lucky enough to fly over them or during their getting up animation you still get blocked and fall and roll in front of them for over 50 frames. But with AE2012, we are able to fly over them now…so I guess its something we are going to do more often. With his super, I’m not sure. Is it really worth risking 4 meters since the startup is still the same as lk oil dive now and you don’t get to fly over them if you screw up. If you can guarantee catching them with super, good for you, but the risk and cost is really big.

The only time I ever attempted an uncrouchable oil dive or super is if I’m damn sure that they will backdash on wakeup.

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k… this has nothing to do with what i asked, but i suggest trying it more often, because some times people will jump on wakeup or even just stand. I would go into the lab and get your timing down, i hit it pretty often and it leads into a lot of shenanigans (i like to lk oil)

its also a great hell marry for come backs.