so i only really read the last page but ok yeah i get the notion of structural feminism and systemic discrimination etc. etc. but i think those really only apply to the ability of women to get involved in the scene in the first place. once you’re in you’re really on an even footing with the men so giving existing women players their own tournament on the basis that they have more obstacles to overcome become they’re women seems bogus imo. that said i can see the value of this tournament in terms of establishing solidarity with female players and attracting more women to the scene, but i think the context is really inappropriate. this is a tournament organised and run by men and attended by a majority of men. whether or not it’s intentional there’s inevitably going to be a subtext of performance to the whole ordeal simply because of the audience. i totally support the aforementioned aims but i think the best way to achieve it would be for women to run their own women-only events or something. trying to build solidarity amongst women in the scene by relying on the existing scene patriarchy (lol) seems counterproductive.
Avoiding the point of the post? A unique demographic extremely foreign to our current community is being offered the chance to step up and grow. My satiric use of that vulgar and simplistic description of women is to illustrate how people can’t get past the fact that they’re all women.
If you think differences between men and women stop at the visible external level then you’re sorely mistaken. My point is there is clear precedence in separating or (the big word we’ve been using with the huge negative connotation gasp) segregating men and women in competition, especially physical competition. Is it going to diminish any of your accomplishments? Only if you make the tournament out to be anything more than it is.
This tournament is a call out to all the females participating in the tournament. Nobody is being coddled. You’re being told to STEP THE FUCK UP. All you’re saying is you want to be coddled, but only by what you deem appropriate, which is something not in the spot light.
Once again, let’s quote the FAQ
Take it or leave it. As far as all the extra baggage and negative connotations or inferences that everyone is adding to it? That’s on them.
Yeah you’re absolutely right I’m the only person who is against this tournament. Go back and read the last thread please. u__u I mentioned the PMs from girls because I wanted to show that just because I’m one of the only girls posting against it, it doesn’t mean there aren’t a crap-ton more who agree with me. If you don’t believe me or don’t find this significant at all, there really isn’t much else I can say about it. I know not all girls agree with me. Honestly from the responses I’ve seen and the girls I’ve talked to, it seems about 50/50 maybe 60/40 in favor of not having the tournament. A lot of people have different reasons, but as you can see if you read the last thread and a lot of this one, most people’s initial reactions were “hmm this doesn’t sound right, why separate girls?”… This issue relates to me because, although I don’t play SFIV, I’m part of this community, I’ve been part of this community, and I know, a lot better than you do, how bullshit guys act towards girls in it and I think it needs to stop. The start is giving women in here some respect, not treating them like babies, and not separating them from other players.
Drew: there is no point in me posting any responses since you don’t seem to really read and/or understand any of what I’ve been saying anyway (if you’ve even read any of it). You’re either a troll or an idiot, both are a waste of my time.
You’re just splitting hairs. It’s all the same in the end. Whether they are a small group or not, you’re still making a big deal out of girls simply playing the game because they are girls.
I never said there wasn’t anything physical. I just there is no physical barrier to entry, meaning that everyone, regardless of gender, starts on the same playing field.
I do think its a waste of time, and I don’t think you need to roll out the red carpet with some goofy feel good tournament in order to embrace them.
Look, you can go sifting through the other threads yourself if you don’t believe me that there were other women who found the idea of the tournament offensive, and who (yes) actually posted saying so. I happen to think that, done right, the event has the potential to be a success, but marginalizing the viewpoint of the opposition as if it doesn’t even exist because they don’t choose to post in this thread is mendacious.
Great. Another person that wants me to look up “sexism” in the dictionary, as if I’ve never even seen a dictionary before, or as if consulting a dictionary is something I should be ashamed of. I thought I’d be done with this by now, considering how I even went so far as to copy-and-paste the definition for sexism from Merriam-Webster in the previous thread for the sake of the discussion.
I have no idea what the words you want me to look at are, but I am starting to see what it is you’re trying to say. You don’t think EVO staff “can or will” police the crowds to silence disgraceful behavior. How do you know? Because you said so? Sorry, not persuasive.
Okay, I’m hoping the patriarchal connotations will be successfully sidestepped by EVO staff if they take appropriate precautions. If there are women who work or volunteer for EVO to help run this tournament, I think it would help. It’s the best that can be done under the circumstances since neither the Cannon brothers nor Wiz can are women. I’ve thought about recommending making the tournament area for the women’s invitational closed to non-participants, but then that would bring back (oh god) the accusations of segregation.
Edit: Taking my foot out of my mouth but not my head out of my ass.
I’ve read most of the postings but didn’t want to reply. I personally am choosing not to participate in the Femme Fetale invitational as of right now, I’m just competing in the open tourney only unless somehow people change my mind. I read that all females who enter the open SSF4 tourney will get an invitation to enter this and it’s OPTIONAL. The fact that it’s optional makes me not understand why there’s so much arguing. Basically… if you’re a girl and you don’t like the idea, don’t compete. You can state WHY you think this is a bad idea, of course, it’s your right AND maybe it’ll give EVO some useful information about how to go about the tourney the right way. HOWEVER, I don’t get why people who think it’s a bad idea and don’t plan on competing keep writing ESSAYS on here of how horrible it is. Just drop it… we know how you feel.
My thoughts… I originally thought that it was a bad idea. Ladies tournaments are good as a first tournament or for females who still aren’t ready for bigger competitions since it helps give you a taste of what you’ll be going through but on a smaller scale. I do not think that a tournament like this is really necessary at EVO. EVO is just TOO big and there’s too many haters out there that are going to ridicule these girls. Basically what I’ve learned from LOSF is that if you’re not a hot asian girl basically they don’t care about your skills. If you win a match against an opponent but didn’t FADC into Ultra or do some massively sick combo then you suck. It’s too hard to be a respected female player in SF4, and very few females in the US actually ARE respected for their skills, and it’s a shame. If a girl does well and then gains a lot of attention from it she is going to be deemed an “attention whore” even though she’s mostly likely just a very dedicated player and this is just yet another reason why this is a bad idea. The winner of this tournament will probably deal with the most negativity instead of being encouraged to continue on to compete in more tournaments.
While I think female tournaments are a good idea in some cases… I am really thinking this is going to be a bad idea. I just see more harm coming then good from this and am actually pretty worried about it. I’m worried this will actually turn away more females then it will bring into the community. I hope I’m wrong… but reading the forums on here has only confirmed my thoughts.
Good luck to whoever enters,as I said already though, I most likely will not be entering.
I’ve got to say, I’ve got Super Yan’s back on this.
That’s the perfect example of the competitive spirit that’s lacking from female fighting game players today.
And to any of you saying that there’s no point to continuing to argue in this thread, that isn’t true in the least bit. Just making one’s opinion known on a subject they disagree with is the best way to help change it
Yeah, I really don’t understa
I said I wasn’t going to post in this thread anymore but after the post above me I just felt compelled to say…
This thread has gone to SHIIIIIEEEEEEEEETTTTTTTTTTT!!!
Whatever happens I hope it goes well and I completely agree with what Starslayer said. I also believe that making a name for yourself can be done many ways and whatever way it’s done can never truly effect the way another person does it. SuperYan could honestly make a huge name for herself just by being a strong player. Basically the Daigo effect where you don’t say much and just win. Though I also don’t really have a problem with someone who just has “other aspects” to them as long as they are performing as well. In the end it’s about playing well.
Do it the SuperYan way or do it the Starslayer way. It’s like Nike…just do it.
Still doubt Evo is going to throw this tournament away.
WHY. THE. FUCK. ARE. YOU. HERE.
Go back to playing Guitar Hero “competitively” (seriously, how the fuck do you do that?) you whiny little idiot.
you’re really bad at trolling cabbagepots i mean seriously even pol made a better post than you
thats who that is? oh btw whats up guys.
“Why the fuck” are YOU here? I don’t know what’s more ridiculous, the fact that you don’t understand how GH can be played competitively or the fact that you thought your post was remotely relevant. Jesus Christ if you want to be a dick, do it with tact please.
Just postin’ to say the entire idea of this tournament has been fucking retarded from the get-go, and pretty much everything Super Yan has said is accurate. It’s condescending and objectifying and reduces its participants from their skill and strategy to their tits and skirts. I don’t think any self-respecting woman would proudly proclaim themselves “one of the best female players” of a video game unless they desperately sought approval from others on a rather unhealthy level.
why are you guys talking about GH
Real talk if Starslay3r was literally 50 feet tall, I’m sure Psycho Josh would be in Love with her.
I really don’t get the point of this. Is this to make males respect the female players or something?
:] Long time no see Ben. <3
Word up. 
We need to Tekken more.
Quoted for truth~!
Ahhhhhhhhh.
In addition to my previous post, I’d just like to say that I hope any females who are considering going to Evo will decide to go, level up (regardless as to where they’re at now), and show some skills at this tournament. A lot of people are talking like there won’t be much to impress the masses in Femme Fatale, and I want to see the ladies prove that wrong. If you read the FAQ in the first post, you’ll know that one of the main reasons this tournament is being held is to showcase female player talent. People can say what they want, but in the end, the tournament will speak for itself, one way or another.
The FAQ also suggests that another (or really, the other) reason for the tournament is to welcome women into the community and show some respect. I don’t think that should be too hard.
There are many reasons for why Evo should or maybe should not have the tournament, but the decision (so far) has been made, and I hope people can focus on those two points (along with the other reasons that this might end up being a good thing). I’ve seen a lot of cynicism about this from people who seem to wish the event would do well. While the success and impact of the event are variable, that sort of thing mostly seems to detract. I encourage you to…well, stop that (heh), and give this a shot if you see why it might be worthwhile.
Hopefully that’s all I really need to say here. This post ended up being much longer than I had originally planned. x_X
Let’s go let’s go let’s go, step it up and show us what you’ve got! And let the community show a sincere welcome.