I’m not against this new shooting at all because the cops did the right thing, but I see this video making its way around facebook and it’s sorta related, more so to the Tamir Rice incident.
Compare the length of time this guy pointing his gun in random directions and police before he finally got shot. This dude went back to his car and grabbed a fucking gun out of it lol. Tamir Rice and John Crawford got like 3-5 seconds with fake guns, the later not even pointing or doing anything controversial (just talking on his cell phone). Levar Jones went to his car to grab his wallet and got shot instantly.
Ugh I wish the Crawford case was the one that had the most media attention. Seeing some high profile folks try to defend this new one is a bit disappointing though.
Edit: Damn I got Ninja’d hard. Gotta start hitting F5 more often.
In the comments of the video, people are race baiting. Saw someone say ‘so you’re saying the police should kill white people in these situations to make it even Stevens’. Like no- I’d rather no one’s life was taken in these situations. Like seriously race is more of an issue than people being killed.
Word, but if someone stands 4-6 feet away from you, and blast you in the heart with a 40 cal, besides all the concussive force your body will experience from the bullet, with all that blood pumping through you (easily over 3 gallons a minute) , since your body will likely be in fight or flight unless you got sniped, you should black out from lack of (or severe quick drop in blood pressure) blood pressure in seconds.
I guess it varies though, what cal of bullet, where exactly did the bullet penetrate, and how deep, etc… I just dont feel comfortable agreeing that a heart shot in general is something people can still just fight through, because i doubt if i blind folded people and shot them clean in the heart, that even 1 of them would get up and take off running before dying. If they did, they would have seconds before blacking out, not minutes, but i guess seconds is all you need if you have a weapon too.
I mean, none of this is relevant, just blabbing, because cops dont have xray vision, so they wont know if they shot you in the heart or not. lol.
I will pay Rhio2k $150k to let me shoot him 10 times with a gun if he can move around for 3 minutes after that. I have the money. If he can’t move the entire 3 minutes though he gets nothing.
Change that to shoot AT, and we have a platform from which to start negotiations. Besides, 10 is 4 more lives than my current total. I don’t have the time to stock back up, let alone a turtle shell and a staircase nobody will be using for half a day.
I’m tired of people bringing up the dude who got shot at Wal-Mart without knowing that state’s laws.
Even if what he were holding were a real gun, that state does NOT require a license for an open carry of a firearm of that size. The cops were 100% wrong because they should have known that law along with him not threatening anyone with the goddamn BB gun.
Nobody knew the gun was fake until it was too late, and the way he was swinging it around and poking at things with it carelessly would probably have gotten him shot at a gun range under grounds of self-defense. We got fuckin’ 17 year old drug dealers and gang members with AK’s in the hood, so it falls within the realm of reality that a young black guy could somehow have one in a store, so that caller had plausible deniability on that one.
And as for ANY state that allows open carry, you’re supposed to carry your gun RESPONSIBLY. Open carry doesn’t mean you get to walk around with it in your hand if it’s a handgun, or use it as a damn conductor’s baton if it’s a rifle. Handguns are to be secured in hip or underarm holsters, and holders strapped. You are supposed to carry your rifle secured by a strap hanging from your shoulder, either crosswise across your back or on one side, with your hand NOWHERE near the trigger.
In all these cases there’s all this “They shoulda known” shit, but in situations POSSIBLY dealing with a live gun, what fool is going to take chances? One mistake and you don’t go home if it’s real. That said, they really should have given him a couple more seconds to comply. That’s the only area where they messed up.
You’re trying to make excuses here. We have absolutely no proof that he was walking around poking shit or threatening anyone. The videos don’t show that. He was just carrying the toy guy, THAT THAT WALMART SELLS, just like any other customer would have. Besides, there’s no real legal code of conduct. What you just described there is all optional. If the law doesn’t explicitly states that you need a strap for your rifle or to hold it in a certain manner–which Ohio state law does NOT have–your point is all just conjecture.
As for the rest of your nonsensical post, John Crawford was seen IN THE GODDAMN VIDEO, speaking on his phone leaning on the gun. There was nothing threatening about it. Even if he were dangerous, he’d have to grab the gun and use two hands to aim it accurately. Your argument falls apart because you’re basing your opinion on feelings instead of the facts.
I do respect you. You’ve always been a cool dude on the forums, but in this instance you’re wrong. The cops acted poorly and should lose their jobs over it. They are–or should be–trained to assess a situation before pulling the trigger.
I know I’m saying this from the safety of my desk, but I didn’t choose that line of work. They did and have a responsibility to themselves and to the public to strive to meet a high criteria. That means having the experience to tell what is and is not a real threat.
What video did you watch? I’m not sure we saw the same one. The one I saw had him (right side of screen) side by side with the cops entering via the front door (left side of screen), a timestamp on the bottom of the screen, and he was carelessly poking at stuff on shelves with the gun and then was holding the gun at his side, swinging it straight up to the ceiling, down, on his shoulder to point behind him, and around repeatedly at intervals as if to emphasize his point to whoever was on the phone with him, until law enforcement arrived. He was not leaning on it like it was a cane or something. You do that around a gun range or other trained people with guns, and you will find guns pointed at you and people barking at you to either secure your firearm or put it down. Even in open carry states you aren’t allowed to be handling a firearm in such a negligent manner without some trouble.
With the John Crawford case, the police where told by the person that called 911, Ronald Ritchie, that John Crawford was threatening people and pointing the gun at people.
It was only when the surveillance footage was released, which was after the grand jury acquitted the officer in the shooting, that we saw that John Crawford did not point the gun at anyone, at any time. Neither was he given enough time to comply with the officers, other than to say it’s not real. Ritchie later told the Guardian that Crawford did not shoulder the toy rifle and aim it at anyone.
And despite there being over 200 surveillance cameras, Walmart did not initially release footage of the incident. It was only after the grand jury ‘acquitted’ the officer, that the footage was released.
The family are filing suit against Walmart, with one of their arguments being over the regulations Walmart has in place to protect those who walk around with the toy guns the store sells.
There’s the video. On his phone, not pointing at shit, and the barrel was aimed straight down to the floor. That’s when the police saw him. He was literally just standing there talking on his phone. What do you see there that requires the use of deadly force?
And you keep saying gun range this and that. The fucking guy is in a WAL-MART so please shut the fuck up about that. It’s not germane to the discussion. The cops could have come up to him and ask him about the gun and found out it was an air rifle and left. They didn’t even give him a chance to talk. He just took a bullet then the cops came to him. What kind of shit is that? This right here is one of the worst police officers I’ve ever seen. He shouldn’t have a badge.
As for your final sentence, I guess you finally admit that there’s no laws on the books on how to handle your gun in public. Since we’ve established that, let’s stop bringing it up as if it’s a point that will bolster your argument. The fact is, even if it were a real gun, he couldn’t be told not to carry it the way he was.
“HE WOULD HAVE BEEN TOLD TO SECURE THAT SHIT OR PUT IT DOWN!”
The police didn’t even give him the opportunity to do that.
If you can’t see why this is wrong, there’s no saving you.
Bad example with the gun range, but here’s another more apt one: if anyone else had been armed, they would have drawn on him. People who carry concealed tend to be heroic like that. And…wow…that is the shortest vid I’ve ever seen of the incident. Here, try this one
And as I said, I do see the problem here: they clearly didn’t give him enough time to comply before taking action. They didn’t even bother to get his attention. They just shouted, then fired.
The pointing on things is a dumb thing to do with a firearm, sure, but he had a goddamn toy. I can see why anyone would be uncomfortable with him doing that, but he was on the phone bothering no one. Hell, there were barely people there. Nothing he did was illegal, just not safe IF IT WERE A REAL GUN. Either way, it doesn’t mean it’s his fault. I don’t buy it.
The cops should have never fired. I get that in the heat of the moment it could have been mistaken for a real gun. But they didn’t even give him a chance to do shit. This cop wanted to be a hero and ended up killing a guy for it. We don’t know what would have happened if he had bothered to just walk up to the dude, which he could have done, and just ask him if it were a real gun.
I’m against the sale of any toy guns period, and anything that would look like a real gun that isn’t quite a toy either.
There is no reason kids should be playing with those things. When I was a kid we pointed with our fingers after all, but usually we didn’t even have to glorify guns period.
This is an instance where the government should be setting standards and banning something that leads to problems.
You can make a real gun look like a toy too. That’s the real reason why cops can’t take chances. That’s why you’re better off banning the toys entirely.
@Raz0r If the unions are in the way of, what most people see, as badly needed police reform, why don’t I see any one blaming them? I don’t see for people calling for legislation that would restrict the power of police unions, or at least starting a debate on what it would take to place better people in the force.
Instead, all I see is “institutionalised racism rah”, a discourse which does nothing but place the blame on an invisible enemy (the perceived mentality of police in general). It’s analysis that is bankrupt and necessarily leads to radical conclusions.
I never understood why Black people think that the instinct of self-defense can be seen as racism.
I’m not a racist, i’m just *for real. The race card black people pull off is retarded. Black people need to either get over themselves or atleast wisen up, they are not “treated differently”. There are so many different minorities in the USA and yet it is only the black people that are so active in cop hating/protesting… and the reality is that it is NOTdue to their color but due to the fact that in the USA their race is commonly doing criminal activity. Black people, in NYC, are also commonly very racist. Just go to Penn Station and watch how the black bums throw out racial to sexist slurs on random non black people coming out of the A or C trains.
Police unions, like any union, makes it difficult to fire someone and keep them fired. That’s why so many police are reinstated. And there was talk about it. Not that long ago I just posted a very long article discussing the problem with police unions and the power they have. About politicians, none want to touch the police because it’s a volatile issue.
The only reason you’re not seeing this is because you’re living in a bubble of ignorance. Expand your library of what you read and maybe you’ll learn a thing or two.
Your not racist. You definitely know every black person in america and are not an idiot for painting the entirety of the people under one brush and using that to justify civilian deaths, which come back and bite innocent people of other races in the ass to because the precedent was set that could have been stopped but wasn’t due to people’s own prejudices.
The color of your skin has everything to do with the amount of crime you commit, not the area you live in, cultural background, or economic status. Please explain o me how exactly you are not racist. You use they and their a lot so i assume you are not black your self. What is the basis for your opinions because it sounds to me like your saying edgy stuff to try and look cool but your only coming off as someone ignorant of the entire situation to me.