Inciteful post, i get what you’re saying but i never said she was the worst character in the game. I said she’s the weakest, i know dmg doesnt determine EVERYTHING but its very important.
Mag Storm Cable Sentinel do huge dmg along with good buttons which is why they are top tier, parasoul has good buttons and crap dmg.
Doesn’t make sense considering that this is a team based “versus” style game. The system allows extreme characters to rise to the top when you have a proper team built around them.
You’re still thinking combo damage. Sometimes, it’s more about controlling the options that the other player has and getting damage off of that than flat out combo damage output.
I know, but that means that team is top tier, not the character herself.
Covering up the options of a bad/“extreme” character with something sick is just the sign of a smart player.
Well, it is a team based game.
Fair enough.
I’m new to team based games. (Does Vanguard Princess count?)
Halfway there, since you only have to think about half a team. No question of your point/assist combination works the other way around.
That’s an amazing typo, “inciteful” = “likely to incite (violence/unrest)”, “insightful” = what you meant.
Anyway, damage isn’t as important in determining how good a character is as you keep saying it is. WM has the same damage as IM (or better!) but MUCH worse mobility and he’s considered garbage. Juggernaut has the ability to kill you with 1 meter off any hit combined with no mobility and he’s crap. Iceman can do 80% with one meter and he’s crap. Ken can do 75% meterless with 4 moves and he’s crap. Strider doesn’t hurt with combos and he’s good. Cable has the ability to kill you with 3 meters, sometimes 2, but his meterless damage is awful and most of the reason he’s good is his zoning game and his ability to punish mistakes with uncounterable fishing.
To put that another way, EVERYONE in XSF can kill you off one hit, but there are still tiers. And if you play without infinites…those tiers don’t change much.
It wasn’t really a typo i knew it was wrong when i wrote it, it was underlined red i just didn’t feel like typing it again. I said having both means the character is good, i know you can’t have one without the other. Character mobility/options outweighs damage output in some occasions, i’m just speaking from high level play vs high lvl play.
If the person is using parasoul/double and the other is using lets say Val/Filia/double, this person has 2 godly assist and most of his chars can do solid damage alot higher than parasoul. Even in this 3v2 ratio or w.e he still has a TOD on 2 character teams, parasoul can’t do much against that kind of stacked team her keepaway is limited. I’m calling this out because i was winning that set with team Painwheel/Double pretty free but then i picked parasoul for fun and she got assaulted, i’m not even going to toot my horn or anything but i believe i’m a pretty damn solid parasoul.
I believe what Mike is saying is exactly that damage doesn’t matter as much as you think it does at high level play.
You know you have a hard time admitting you’re wrong when you admit to intentionally writing a typo.
Sigh… i could take examples from relative current games, but i don’t feel like dragging this on.
EDIT: I will cause i want to prove a point, SF4 VANILLA: Highest dmg output Sagat best character Sagat, best character in high level play SAGAT.
Mvc3: Top character 100% of the time best options HIGHEST DMG, Vergil high dmg not the best footsies in the game by any means all of his whiffed moves = punishment.
KOF: Mr.Karate one of the best chars for his high dmg output and options.
I’ll even name Arcana heart 3: Akane is one of the best for her HIGH dmg and mixups
Having just some okie doke footsies is cool but you need dat dmg.
This page is gatliek.
Like what? Marvel 3?
Same thing applies. All the best teams are the ones that control massive amounts of space. Look at players like Chris G or Filipino Champ, you know what makes them good, it’s because they will play the neutral game and make you bleed before you even get a hope of getting in. Why is MorriDoom good? Because the team totally dominates the neutral game with one of the most vicious traps we’ve ever seen. Why is Magneto so good? Because he can come in from all sort of angles and get you in a combo. In a game where near everyone can ToD you, getting in and/or keeping people out is more important.
Here’s a little anecdote, I’ve personally watched Ryan (FChamp) practice before a money match. You know what he does? Not combos. He practices his neutral game. I’ve seen him do nothing but wavedash back and forth for minutes on end. When he’s not doing that, he’s doing safe landing setups. When he does do combos, it’s usually after practicing certain angles or setups. That’s how important the neutral game is.
EDIT: Lol at Vanilla SFIV when the game was played for barely a year, 2 if you count early Japanese arcade play. It still amazes me that people think that a game can be fully figured out after a couple of years of play. Here’s a tip, Viper is top tier in AE and 2012 with the exact same tools she had in vanilla. Even then, Sagat’s main advantage in vanilla was because he could kara into his tiger shots, meaning that he had an amazing zoning game.
A better example though would be Super before we developed offensive SFIV tech. Top tier in that game was all about fundamentally strong characters, Chun, Rog, etc. all characters who strong footsies. The only exceptions were Cammy and Rufus and guess what they had, a Capcom divekick, guaranteed to make anyone top tier due to how it gets around good space control.
I never said it wasn’t important, but you need to know combos as well. I’m not a combo fanatic i’ve only been in training mode for like 15min post patch probably, most of that was practicing resets. I know resets, and neutral game. It just so happens other characters have a better plethora of that, and thats fine but you can’t call every character good because they just aren’t.
Peacock really has better damage than Parasoul, or are you not adjusting to the new IPS?
Before the patch, I had these sick run stop shits, but now, nope, I just ABC ABC Excellebella, does like 60 percent solo v solo.
The problem is that you keep coming back to damage. Me, Mike and a whole lot of other folks have been telling you that it’s not just that.
isn’t this all off topic? doesn’t it belong in gameplay discussion?
The cerebella abc ez mode combo does more than parasouls by quite a bit, peacock does indeed have a higher dmg output than parasoul. Although most peacocks aren’t combo heavy and would rather keepaway since its better to be full screen.
No this is patch discussion, i’m presenting my complaint about parasouls dmg nerf and other characters buff.
Isn’t the “damage nerf” supposed to be more of a “patch fix for something that was obviously not working as intended”? Or are you talking about the damage nerf in the level 3?