sorry to dig this up but Awww D= I guess I’ll scrap my Cerebella project for brawl =(
Lemme clarify that - the fact that Melee is still at major tournaments IMO has to do with the large group of Smash players that think it is a fun/fast/interesting game that stands the test of time, with the glitches helping it along, like MvC2. They still want to play it. Those same players also generally dislike Brawl for the opposite reasons (and random tripping). The IMO was “this here is my opinion of why Melee’s still around” rather than “my opinion is Brawl sucks”.
I know how to punish it in those situations, but it depends on how the other person does it as well. The examples you gave were obvious easy punishes, if they tiger knee it and i blocked it while standing then what. Pushblock napalm pillar sniper thats it? not that big of a punishment kinda a waste of meter too cause its so damn weak…
It also has to do with Brawl being so fucking imbalanced in the roster. At least MVC2 had a pantheon of gods. Brawl just has one.
@Vulpes yeah, whats with this?
I feel like any time a character does a new chain, in the air or otherwise, ips should step in. Any character doing chain, air dash/flight cancel, same chain should activate ips. if this was how the game should be, where the first part of an air combo gets special treatment, then why take away bellas runstop loop? It did the same thing, only on the ground, and it wouldnt have been so powerful after the ips change anyway. I feel that ips should be what it was explained to be; jump in free, ground chain free, next chain watched, next chain punished.
Well, you ignored punishing with your assist, which can lead to a full combo. And I covered what to do if they do it at a height you can block…
That’s one answer that I guess you glossed over. Another is that with tight timing you can follow up a point-blank Napalm Pillar midstage with dash s.LK on some characters like Filia, which turns your crap punish into a full punish. Assuming you never drop combos, which was part of your initial argument why resets are useless, you should never miss that. (Conversely, if you do miss it then dropping combos is a reality and resets aren’t useless.)
— The important bit —
I think you don’t really understand what resets are for. Resets aren’t “I do this combo into this reset at Hit X, or this reset at Hit Y”, you mix up when you do them and you do varying versions at different times so that your opponent doesn’t know when they will be coming and is forced to react differently in a very short period of time. You can also choose options that beat most common mashing reactions like supers, LPs, and assists. Doing nearly your maximum damage and then stopping right before you will HAVE to stop anyway and trying for a reset…is NOT the proper use of a reset, because your opponent knows you can’t continue from there and is expecting one by that point. Doing a random number of hits into a reset into another one into a longer combo is much more effective because you are unpredictable.
Witness things like this. (Actually WATCH the video, dammit. Random mid-loop reset into single crossup hit underneath into another hit from the other side timed to stop the assist mash…you can’t expect things like that because even Soo didn’t know he was going to do it until he did it.)
I know you’re going to dismiss this with an “I know that”, but if you really UNDERSTOOD it then you wouldn’t be arguing they are useless in the first place.
And dismissing any damage you can get - especially via punish - as a waste is incorrect, but well outside the scope of this thread.
I hope the 360 patch comes out in time for Frosty Faustings. It was awesome getting a demo of SG last year there and it would be nice to get the most turnout we can for it this year.
I think absolute guards will be handy against high/low strings that people repeat with the same timing, but since you can see when they pushblock you should be able to adjust either to make yourself safe from a guard cancel or to delay your mixup till the absolute guard runs out.
yeah I hate the tripping… but I love the game for it’s ease of modding =3 I’ll try my best to make Cerebella a great Char to play in Brawl 
[/offtopic] lol
Isn’t there a tutorial on resets? It feels like one of those things that people know about, but don’t fully understand. Maybe a set of community tutorials in the future can solve this issue.
yeah I hate the tripping… but I love the game for it’s ease of modding =3 I’ll try my best to make Cerebella a great Char to play in Brawl [/offtopic] lol
Isn’t there a tutorial on resets? It feels like one of those things that people know about, but don’t fully understand. Maybe a set of community tutorials in the future can solve this issue.
It’s like “footsies”, you can explain it all you want it words but the only way to really learn is with practice because there aren’t any foolproof follow-these-to-do-it-right rules.
I actually think her reset options are pretty strong. Her having string reset options doesnt have much to do with my argument though. Painwheel imho has the best overall reset options in the game… Yet even there i get my stuff teched or blocked sometimes. It happens and the less damage a character does the more they have to reset, and the more they have to reset to kil a character, the more likely they wont kill the character on one in, which makes that character weaker overall.
I agree that parasol has good stuff at many ranges as well. What i dont know yet is whether or not she is strong enough to warrant for her extreme weakness in the air on hit. Shes the most free character in the game on hit in midair. No other character has so few options.
Her options are tech or dont tech.
That is it. Purest 50/50 there ever was. And its completely safe for the attacker to try over and over again as there is no way for the attacker to take damage perfect timing… Which isnt all that hard since the timing window for a perfect reset is pretty wide.
Her weakness to being air reset is the crux of my argument.
No worries we can disagree and still have mutual respect. And my opinion can definitely be swayed on this matter.
Ok so number one, you only get to reset with an assist if that assist didnt help you to open… High/low opening behind copter or lockdown assists is one of the best ways for her to open… And letting that go for a reset is dubious… Now… Im no idiot, of course you arent going to let that go
Just to get a reset… Which means that parasoul more often than not is NOT going to have an assist based reset as an option.
Number 2. You only have 1 assist based reset at your disposal per series if you want to keep those resets tight… Now you can of course do much looser resets that always allow for assists even after having used one… But im pretty sure those are pretty weak. And super gimmicky… Though with copters huge hotbox… Perhaps not. Seems worth looking into.
Number 3. I dont think parasouls resets are weak. I said that they werent guaranteed.
I made the argument about them not being guaranteed against the argument that she could just reset. High damage behind good execution = 99-100% high damage everytime.
High damage behind reset based gameplay = not high damage everytime.
And thats all there really is to it… You guys are trying to argue against math… And thats just dumb. You need to argue her intangibles and show why they are stronger than her air reset weakness and RELIANCE on multiple resets in her own offense to do tod damage.
I had a 4 but i forget now.
Sorry guys im smack dab in the middle of one of my 84 hour work weeks… It wasnt easy for me to type this… I need to sleep.
Ahhh bed… Nighty night night yall.
Zzzzzzz
And that right there is the problem with your line of thinking. Getting hit isn’t guaranteed, in other words a good player can keep from getting hit (and get in and hit their opponent first). This is where the neutral game comes in. A game like this where you can output high damage off combos and you can control massive amounts of space with moves and assists actually emphasizes the neutral game more. This is because the risk involved in getting hit means that you spend more time trying not to get hit. Let’s take a look at MvC2, if you look at the top tiers, a good part of what makes them top is because they have a great neutral game. Magneto and Storm have great offensive mobility thanks to 8 way free airdash. Sentinel has the best flight mode and is arguably the fastest character in the game thanks to his exploits. Storm can control aerial space better thanks to flight control. Cable literally makes you bleed to get in. If tiers were simply about easy big damage then by all rights Iron Man should be top (and in fact, if you set the game at level 1 damage, he actually does go up in ranking).* However, the big 4 have a better neutral game in general compared to IM. Now seeing as Skullgirls does in a way follow in MvC2’s footsteps, we can say the same thing about how the neutral game is important. It matters not if you can output X amount of damage if you can’t get in to deal it (or if you can, but take X amount of damage doing so). The emphasis is not on doing large amounts of damage when you get in, since the engine pretty much allows that, but on minimizing the damage you take getting in.
Iron Man in low damage Marvel
[details=Spoiler]Spoilered since it’s off topic, yet can likely add to the discussion.
For a bit of backstory, starting around 2005 or so, arcades in the Philippines (where MvC2 is as popular here as it is in the US) all set MvC2 to level 1 damage for some reason or other. What we’ve noticed over the past half decade is that the increase in the amount of Iron Man users and teams, to the point where IM was now preferred over Magneto. I’ve actually discussed this with some of our core MvC2 players. The consensus is that the lower damage settings (and slowed down timer) actually worked against Magneto since he got so much less reward for his resets, meanwhile Iron Man needed to reset less since he run his infinite longer. The other thing working in IMs favor is that he can take more risks going in now meaning he doesn’t bleed as much as he used to to get in against Cable or Storm or Sentinel. In other words the lower damage de-emphasized the neutral game since a premium was now put on maximizing damage once you got in and not minimizing damage when getting in.[/details]
D3V with that top tier shit.
I thought most people knew by now that characters that control space the best/controlled the neutral game=Good.
It’s why I think Fortune is so good in this game, that head is stupid, best footsie tool I’ve seen in any game.
If people thought that, Peacock wouldn’t be considered worst in the game/garbage by most. =/
I consider “extreme” characters like Cerebella and Peacock of the lower tier in this kind of game.
Filia, Valentine, Parasoul, and Ms.Fortune are just so well rounded compared to Painwheel, Double, Cerebella, and Peacock.
This I don’t get. She’s Cable [S]without[/S]with only a two meter AHVB but with better mobility. I’ve had a Team Scrub player pick up Peacock/Parasoul and run rings around players with more experience. In the right hands, she can make you bleed buckets when you try to get in on her. This is a 2D fighting game, the game isn’t always played at point blank range with the other guy in hitstun. Not only that, it’s a team based VS style game, and not VS style game within the past decade (with the probably exception of TvC) has been extremely pixie/RTSD based.
I may be off here (confusion about AHVB, possible), but Peacock actually has a three meter AHVB iirc. H Shadow (Hold) xx Argus, Drop Item, GDO xx BCG xx Argus, GDO hits, Argus. Her version of AHVB is multiple Argus, right?