Zangief Strategy/Match-up Thread

[Aquasilk]

My opinion

Abel 6-4
Akuma 5-5
Blanka 3-7
Boxer 6-4
Cammy 6-4
Chun 6-4
Claw 6-4
Dan 7-3
Dhalsim 6-4
Dictator 6-4
Fei 5-5
Fuerte 5-5
Gen 6-4
Gouken 5-5
Guile 6-4
Honda 4-6
Ken 6-4
Rose 6-4
Rufus 6-4
Ryu 5-5
Sagat 3-7
Sakura 7-3
Seth 3-7
Viper 6-4

[Sephiroth73003]

I’m a new gief player learning my matchups going to try him in a tourney next week, I understand most of the matchups listings but about Blanka what makes it a bad matchup? Does he have some poke or something that makes the matchup hard? Balls can’t be it cuz you can punish them on block and horizontal ball can be st. LP. I’m just curious why the matchup is listed as a 4-6/3-7.

[Hyperblast]

My opinion

Abel 6-4
Akuma 5-5
Blanka 3-7
Boxer 6-4
Cammy 6-4
Chun 6-4
Claw 6-4
Dan 7-3
Dhalsim 6-4
Dictator 6-4
Fei 5-5
Fuerte 5-5
Gen 6-4
Gouken 5-5
Guile 6-4
Honda 4-6
Ken 6-4
Rose 6-4
Rufus 6-4
Ryu 5-5
Sagat 3-7
Sakura 7-3
Seth 3-7
Viper 6-4

My opinion

Fei 6-4
Cammy 5-5
Akuma 5-5
Gouken 6-4
Dhalsim 5-5
Blanka 3-7
Chun-li 5-5
Honda 5-5
Zangief 0-0
Guile 4-6 (good guile) scrub 6-4
Ken 6-4
Seth 2-8
Dicatator 6-4
Sagat 3-7
Vega (i have no clue… random ass character)
Blarog 5-5
Abel 6.5-3.5
Viper 6.5-3.5 (flashmetroids Viper 4-6)
Rufus 5-5
Fuerte 4.5-5.5
Sakura 6-4
Rose 6-4
Dan 6-4
Gen 6-4

[Renegade]

My opinion

Fei 5-5

The match isn’t 5-5 if you block an overhead every once in a while.

[No_defence]

Heh this is just my opinion, although I’d like to think it’s not that far from reality.

CHAR       OCT 5      NOV 4      NOV 7      NOV 21
Abel       7-3        6-4        6-4        6-4
Akuma      4-6        4-6        4-6        4-6
Blanka     4-6        4-6        4-6        4-6
Boxer      6-4        6-4        6-4        5-5
Cammy      x          x          x          5-5
Chun       6-4        6-4        6-4        6-4
Claw       5-5        5-5        5-5        6-4
Dan        dunno      7-3        7-3        7-3
Dhalsim    6-4        5-5        5-5        5-5
Dictator   5-5        5-5        5-5        5-5
Fei        dunno      6-4        6-4        6-4
Fuerte     5-5        4-6        6-4        6-4
Gen        dunno      dunno      6-4        6-4
Gouken     6-4        6-4        6-4        6-4
Guile      5-5        5-5        5-5        5-5
Honda      5-5        5-5        5-5        5-5
Ken        6-4        6-4        6-4        6-4
Rose       dunno      5-5        6-4        6-4
Rufus      6-4        6-4        6-4        6-4
Ryu        4-6        4-6        4-6        4-6
Sagat      3-7        3-7        3-7        3-7
Sakura     dunno      dunno      dunno      dunno
Seth       3-7        3-7        3-7        1-9
Viper      5-5        5-5        5-5        5-5
Zangief    5-5        5-5        5-5        5-5

Changes: Boxer to 5-5 from 6-4, Cammy from being forgotten about for some reason to 5-5 (either 5-5 or 6-4, but I’m leaning 5-5 right now), and Seth from 3-7 to 1-9.

So this Seth thing. I thought I’d played a good Seth when Art/Sabin came to town after he was in Japan. Art’s a really smart player and even though he hadn’t used Seth in months I assumed that he still represented high level Seth play. Like I said in a previous post, I went about 3-7 with him and thought that I’d learned things I could apply against good Seths generally.

Well, yesterday in a tournament I played against OnlineTony’s Seth and got double perfected. Yep, double perfected. No offense to Art, but he’s much better with Seth than post-Japan Art. And here’s the biggest problem: I don’t know what I can do to improve in that match. Typically when you lose it’s because you didn’t stick to your gameplan or you had trouble forcing your gameplan on the opponent, but in this case I didn’t even have a gameplan in the first place. I got double yellowed the first game and then the second game I just started trying buttons to see what I could do, and I hit him a couple times and learned a couple things (jump roundhouse seems good air to air), but I didn’t get nearly enough out of it. And granted, yesterday was some of the worst SF I’ve ever played; I did terribly against everyone I played, no matter how good the matchups were supposed to be for me. But Joe Dubbs, another SoCal Gief, lost to OnlineTony as well.

The reason I’m even putting Seth at 1-9 right now is that I assume that Gief can win sometimes just because… that’s what I assume. And I also assume that I only had this much trouble with the match because yesterday was my first game against a very good Seth. But in talking with a couple other Seth players, like Mr Wizard and Jinrai (and I think Magus? I don’t remember, it was late at night), they said they thought it was 0-10 or 1-9 for real.

I talked with Tony after the match and we’re gonna set up some casuals so I can learn this matchup, but right now I’m at more of a loss than I’ve been in a long time.

2 WoRDS

Training MODE:coffee:

[Renegade]

2 WoRDS

Training MODE:coffee:

You can’t be serious.

[System_1]

I think he is serious…

[bunsomite]

haha, i also think he is serious. hahaha

[Renegade]

He gets neg repped for that shit. You can’t try to crack on the guy who wrote 70% of the useful content in the Gief section.

[Misuchiru]

played a seth online the other day, most of what he did was j.hp (at the rising part or peak of the jump i think) i tried to lariat/headbutt his arms but no good.
of course i banished to get close, but i was already done to 50% health.
i could block but that doesn’t get me anywhere?

I’ve tried to record seth doing j.hp over and over in training mode, but when it connects, he drops back to the ground slower than when it whiffs. I could lariat easily. I can’t seem to get a good recording.
Any tips on how to do the recording?

[UltraDavid]

Heh Robin, don’t worry about it, it doesn’t bug me.

I’m not worried about a Seth who does jumping fierce from across the screen. I know what to do there; if he jumps, press standing strong, and if he sticks fierce out your strong will either beat it or trade with it to your advantage, and if he doesn’t, you didn’t risk anything. But that’s also pretty unproductive for the Seth player. Why would he do a jump fierce there? Say he does a jump there; if he presses fierce he risks losing life, and if he doesn’t press fierce, he risks Zangief walking up to him while he’s in the air. Neither of those is good. His time is much better spent throwing a fireball or building meter or running away or just waiting for me to do something and reacting with super/ultra/stand fierce/low mk xx legs/jump fierce etc. And, that’s what Tony did.

This is why I say I don’t know what to do against a good Seth. Sure, I know little tricks like how to beat jump fierce from max range and whatever, you know, things I can find out in training mode. But Tony didn’t give me a chance to use them, and I don’t really see how I could convince him to do so. What can I do to convince him to throw a jump fierce from max range when it’s clearly not in his interests to do so?

What I’m gonna try to do next time is not jump once unless I have him close to the wall and I think he’s gonna try to wall jump out. I jumped sometimes when I got closer, and that only resulted in antiair dp or jump fierce or super/ultra. I think I can probably play a pretty good ground game instead.

[M.D]

1-9. I always knew it was one-sided, but damn, that’s a free match for Seth. Anyway, looking forward to whatever else you discover in those upcoming casuals UltraDavid.

[ClydeByrd]

2 WoRDS

Training MODE:coffee:

LOL Rlly?

Target Damaged!

[vegita-x]

Heh Robin, don’t worry about it, it doesn’t bug me.

I’m not worried about a Seth who does jumping fierce from across the screen. I know what to do there; if he jumps, press standing strong, and if he sticks fierce out your strong will either beat it or trade with it to your advantage, and if he doesn’t, you didn’t risk anything. But that’s also pretty unproductive for the Seth player. Why would he do a jump fierce there? Say he does a jump there; if he presses fierce he risks losing life, and if he doesn’t press fierce, he risks Zangief walking up to him while he’s in the air. Neither of those is good. His time is much better spent throwing a fireball or building meter or running away or just waiting for me to do something and reacting with super/ultra/stand fierce/low mk xx legs/jump fierce etc. And, that’s what Tony did.

This is why I say I don’t know what to do against a good Seth. Sure, I know little tricks like how to beat jump fierce from max range and whatever, you know, things I can find out in training mode. But Tony didn’t give me a chance to use them, and I don’t really see how I could convince him to do so. What can I do to convince him to throw a jump fierce from max range when it’s clearly not in his interests to do so?

What I’m gonna try to do next time is not jump once unless I have him close to the wall and I think he’s gonna try to wall jump out. I jumped sometimes when I got closer, and that only resulted in antiair dp or jump fierce or super/ultra. I think I can probably play a pretty good ground game instead.

Is this Tony person on X-box by chance?

[JaeronMerc]

I actually would like to play Tony as well.

I wanna see what he’s doing. I’ve always considered the match 2-8, maybe 3-7, but that sounds like he’s found the perfect exploit to tip the match to 1-9.

(Yes, exploit can mean to exploit an advantage, not necessarily a bug or glitch)

I do REALLY well against Seth for the most part, so I’m curious to see the matches. David: Did those matches against yourself or Joe get recorded?

[UltraDavid]

He goes by “OnlineTony” so I’d be surprised if he doesn’t play online, but honestly I have no idea.

I don’t mean to suggest that the numbers I put up here are unassailable or anything, they’re literally just how I feel I’ve been doing in my matches against real people in real games, no theory or anything. Saturday was the first and only time I’ve played a really good Seth in a situation that matters and I got smoked, so I’m listing it as 1-9 because that’s how it’s gone so far for me. If it’s gone better for you, post up your own numbers and tell us why you think you’ve done better. And if it goes better for me in the future, and I hope it does, I’ll change my number.

Jaeron, as far as I know none of those matches got recorded.

[JaeronMerc]

Yeah that sucks. I like all matches being recorded, so if someone beats me with something, I can watch it to see if I can figure out a strat against it. I watch all my tournament matches with Juicebox, Sabre and SNK regardless if I win or lose so I can learn from it.

I look forward to a time when all matches are recorded, hopefully by a replay system.

I know Capcom realized this since they’re working on an extensive replay system. I’m sure you’d want to watch those matches as well, to analyze the pattern and look for holes. I messaged Tony, I’m curious to see it in action.

[No_defence]

Heh Robin, don’t worry about it, it doesn’t bug me.

I’m not worried about a Seth who does jumping fierce from across the screen. I know what to do there; if he jumps, press standing strong, and if he sticks fierce out your strong will either beat it or trade with it to your advantage, and if he doesn’t, you didn’t risk anything. But that’s also pretty unproductive for the Seth player. Why would he do a jump fierce there? Say he does a jump there; if he presses fierce he risks losing life, and if he doesn’t press fierce, he risks Zangief walking up to him while he’s in the air. Neither of those is good. His time is much better spent throwing a fireball or building meter or running away or just waiting for me to do something and reacting with super/ultra/stand fierce/low mk xx legs/jump fierce etc. And, that’s what Tony did.

This is why I say I don’t know what to do against a good Seth. Sure, I know little tricks like how to beat jump fierce from max range and whatever, you know, things I can find out in training mode. But Tony didn’t give me a chance to use them, and I don’t really see how I could convince him to do so. What can I do to convince him to throw a jump fierce from max range when it’s clearly not in his interests to do so?

What I’m gonna try to do next time is not jump once unless I have him close to the wall and I think he’s gonna try to wall jump out. I jumped sometimes when I got closer, and that only resulted in antiair dp or jump fierce or super/ultra. I think I can probably play a pretty good ground game instead.

Thanks for not taking my comment to heart. You are a recon beast.

I mean… training mode is too powerful… You can find out counter’s for everything so you dont have to play by ear.

If Seth vs Zangief is 1-9, I’m going to learn how to play Seth. I want to know Seth in side and out. Dam I thought Sagat vs Grief was bad…

[JaeronMerc]

The match being 1-9 doesn’t mean you’ll play the char as well as someone who has the ability to turn the match to a 1-9. I lose to 1 out of 20 Seths online. That doesn’t make the match 9.5-.5 Giefs favor. That just means they?re not playing the match well. I?m G1-B so they?re not suck players, they just don?t play the match right.

Training mode will NEVER replace real players, since the recorded version you created is doing something specific, and never changing the timing and range. You can record something, but you know exactly when it is coming, and exactly where it is going. A player could delay that button press by 6 frames and it makes a HUGE HUGE difference.

This is why the comment “Training mode would fix your problem” is false.

[ClydeByrd]

^ Tru dat…