I was just watchign my evo 2k4 dvds and for the first time on an evo dvd (I have the previous two sets as well), I saw someone play as a zangief (in ST). Now, I realized that I have no idea of the gameplan someone uses when they play as zangief!!!
For instance, I understand ryu’s gameplan. zone, fireball, anti-air (shoryuken). Old sagat is the same. So when you play as those two, you try to get yourself a certain distance from the opponent and then fireball trap.
But what in the heck are you supposed to do with zangief? Before I saw these videos, I didnt even know how one would go about rotating the joystick 360 degrees and pressing punch, to even get the move off, ever. The way Kuni Funada played him was, to jump in and irregardless of if the opponent blocked or not, he would piledrive him! I am assuming this is a buffer, not a cancel, and I mean if zangeif is really that unstoppable (ie, block a jumping attack and get piledriven) why is he not a god tier? How are you supposed to not get piledriven, in that case? I have also seen him piledrive ppl off a low jab. Also, is there any difference between a jab piledriver and a fierce piledriver?
btw, I am asking these questions having watched an ST match, but I am assuming the tactics for him in CFJ, or even Alpha3 are the same (tho obvioulsy you have to be CC happy in alpha3).
I think if you block Zangief’s jumping attack, you can avoid his SPD by jumping, either forward, backward, or straight up. But in doing so, Zangief can counter that by hitting you in the air, thus making it a decent mind game.
If timed correctly, you have NO CHOICE but to reversal… NONE. This even goes for normal tick throws.
You could maybe counter-throw (as with normal tick throws), but Zangief can prevent you from doing that anyhow by keeping himself out of your throw range.
Hmm, if that’s the case, meaning if it’s too difficult to reverse, then there’s no choice but to jump back and get hit by the jumping attack, just like what Justin Wong did with his Chun-li.
It’s not impossible to reversal a tick (an attack to get the other guy into hit or block stun and throwing him immediately after) into spd. Difficult, yes, but not impossible. You can’t jump out of a good spd tick because it takes frames to jump, you need something instant like a dragon punch or yoga teleport or upkick or flip or whatever. Most characters have a move that will get them out of the tick. For example, Chun’s upkick can reverse it, so he wouldn’t have absolutely had to just jump before the tick.
New Zangief’s SPD is not instant. Old Zangief’s SPD grabs faster than new. That’s why Seth managed to jump out of one of Kuni’s SPD ticks in their match.
If it’s not instant, it must be invincible or something… because it will beat all meaties. Got any examples that can test this? Perhaps Seth jumped out because Kuni timed his SPD wrong.
Try reversal uppercut out of SPD ticks with Old Gief and New Gief. If the Zangief is timing his SPD ticks correctly it should be much harder to reversal DP out of Old Gief’s ticks.
Other than that, you could try using an emulator and check the SPD grabs frame-by-frame.
Hrm… I don’t think reversal-ing would matter… You get the same amount of time to “reversal” regardless of old or new Gief. right? It has nothing to do with the SPD, but the attack that proceeds it.
Even if it wasn’t instant, it wouldn’t matter in theory (yay) in situations where you have frame advantage (after practically all of his normals), because even if there was startup on the new SPD, Gief could time it so he grabs them when they come out of blockstun regardless right? This extra new startup can’t be more than a frame or two, because you still can’t jump out of them.
But that doesn’t say anything about the difficulty of being able to reversal out of ticks between old and new though… I don’t know what’s up with that. >shrugs<
How would I do that with an emulator? That would probably be the best way. But I’m not into the emu stuff… can you suggest a particular emulator for me to try? I didn’t know you could advance them frame by frame.
wtf?! really? I don’t know jack about WW gief… but I always though WW DPs were totally invincible. so you’d hear “Shooryuken!” and get slurped up into SPD? I thought that was only introduced in ST.
I know in CvS2, whenever you are in a position to do a reversal (for example, on wakeup or coming out of block/hit stun), you are immune to throws for a few frames. It’s a safety mechanism to protect against scrub-easy ticks. I believe the same thing exists in SF2.
But the fact remains in SF2 that you cannot easily escape throws, for example by simply holding up to jump. Or if you try to counter it with some attack, the timing is inhumanly strict to perform consistently, so it comes down to randomness or boring-easy throw loops.
It’s not inhumanly strict to perform consistantly. Maybe crazy difficult, but not inhuman. With some specials like flash kick, and by optimizing your button pressing, and other things like playing the game for like 5 years, it’s actually not that hard to get reversal. Same goes for counter-throw.
The japanese are famous for getting reversal like 90%+ of the time… and believe it or not, they are indeed human (don’t believe the hype!
As for the “frames of no-throw time” or whatever, I believe they are there after get-up, and when landing from being hit out of the air onto your feet, but that’s it… i can’t think of another situation that might have it.
