Never thought of faking them out with a feint mp headbutt. Good tip.
Hey fat Gief players, I’m a Gen player and just looking to expand my roster a bit, wondered if I could get some advice or tips from the hairy men themselves. Anyone wanna spar or help me out?
Just add “veggey” on live, and we can play. Im playing from Norway, so UK shouldnt be an issue. But are you talking MUP knowledge vs. Gief? or actually playing him? if so gief on gief isnt gonna do you any good… Its more random than rock, sciccors paper…
But i can play other chars and we can chat whilest playing.
Regarding the SRK on cross issue.
To my knowledge and expirience there are no crosses that beats out srk, the only thing that stuffs SRK is shortjump + kneedrop, you can actually see the SRK whiff, and the char staying grounded, you can still get srked after recovery if your timing isnt strict(before blocking). Other than that, you have to play with your jump timing i think, if they think you are going to go for a crossup splash, and u shortjump it into a non-crossup they might not press punch before you are meaty. More expirienced players will however, and they will also read your jump timing, if you are going for a late jump to make m.srk whiff, they will most likely change their option to a LIGHT shoryu, and juggle Ultra. This happend to me vs both Ryanhart and Daigo… Making my expirience vs other Ryu’s useless, as they lose alot on not beeing able to see how the cross works.
Personally i think the shoryu is retarded great to fuck up gief crosses… As long as they read your late / early cross, they mix up between autocorrect medium.shoryu and light.shoryu reversal… Where light shoryu.reversal is the most dangerous…
Also if they autocorrect with light shoryu instead, they can trade and give you a trade ultra. GET HYPE BABEH! =)
I never understood why crossing with gief became so much harder in super, did they change his airborn hitbox?
Shall do Veggey! I’d like to learn to play gief, not just the gen v gief matchup (but I’m happy to go play my Gen if you like). For some reason I couldn’t get in the situation to SPD AT ALL (I was playing a decent Ken, dunno if that changes anything?) Would be good to pick up some tips!
This is how i have expirienced the matchup. But its no ultimate guide for how you fight ken, and ive proabably missed out on somethings =)
Ken looses to patience. S.mp beats out stepkick when its active for free, SPD grabs deep stepkicks(they are -2) all overheads are punished by Ultra1. Late lariat beats every jump in, including very nice spaced once. You just have to wait for zangief to turn around, giving you that invu front. c.lp XX EXGH(the os-Buffer) Beats out stepkick on startup, and if you hit it semi-deep. c.lk buffer EXGH beats out c.mk, and startup of stepkick, before its fully active.
Block the last hit on the Ken-U2 for a easy U1 punish.
Fadc and short lariat the fireballs. Prediction lariat beats stepkick.
Ken U2 punishes whiffed lariats.
Short jump Kneedrop beats srk, but isnt safe on high hit.
When ken has his vortex on you, dont try to outsmart him. Simply hold DB, and look for the inevitable KARA-Throw! If he overheads, pop the ultra…
After Light SPD, banishing in and s.mp will beat out all ken has or trade, except for EX-SRK and both ultraes. It will mostly trade vs all other SRKS, and can override hard shoryu.
Look for patterns, such as blocked or hit stepkick into c.mk, if you feel certain that this pattern will stay on for a while, mash the SPD or EX-GH. SPD is the ofc safer, while EX-GH gives you a better vortex if hit.
Randomly neutral jump and look for a use of your headbut, kens tend to try and mix inn odd AIR-Shenanigans.
After you block light.shoryu do the SPD as he lands.
Other things to look out for:
- Ken using HARD-TATSU in combo = Free U1 or H.SPD/RBG
- Ken might throw a fireball, focus cancle it, and go for a karathrow. Read this mixup by AIRBORN lariat, or spd/U1, depending on how certain you are of his actions.
Ultra? I would use ULTRA1 in this matchup, it shuts down so many options that the ken will be forced to play more careful.
Cons and Pros for ultras are:
U1:
- Great punish tool.
- Tickthrowing into ultra.
- only usable upclose.
- does not shut down air.
U2:
+Makes jumping in on U1-reaction-kens “safe”.
- Can counter U2-Ken’s full hit autocorrect on cross.
- Opens up alot of Kens ground game.
- Is unreliable as a punish tool, good reactions and or predictions are neccesarry, and can be punished heavily.
Oh and ONLINE KEN, is godlike =)
You smashed the little old man Veggey!
GGs, sorry i had to leave. You’re Gen was very good, but the matchup is real tough for Gen, in my opinion it might even be 6.5 Gen has no real reversal that can ruin vortex, nor does his midrange pokes beat out Giefs. I mean, i do have to mix up my counter pokes, but for the most part c.lk beats out gens pokes… 
Anyway, tonight i can play Ken, and you can try gief =D Did you see my s.720 without buffer? 
I thought I could have done better but my piano’ing wasn’t up to scratch! But yeah man solid gief, lovely tick 720 lol I was getting smashed so i threw out some EX Gekiro’s for lol’s which caught you I’m not usually a mashing scrub so I thought I’d surprise you lol. I’d be happy to play your gief again or I could play gief and try out vs any char’s you know 
I think I could do better against your gief if we played again!
Lately I’ve been experimenting with punishing blocked DPs with Ultra 2.
I just started messing with it a few days ago, I haven’t landed it in a match yet, but I’ve done it in the lab and it’s definitely possible. I’ve tested it against Ryu Ken and Akuma - it seems you’ve got more or less the same window of opportunity not matter which strength they use. Maybe a couple frames difference, maybe more, still experimenting. What sucks is that it is very possible to just wiff the ultra. Still working on the timing.
Wanted to know if anyone else had been using Ultra 2 this way and if you’d had any success. Baiting a DP and punishing with Ultra would definitely tempt me away from Ultra 1.
Also, it seems to matter which up direction you were inputting when you jump.
Also for anyone attempting this, you have to do it sorta like Cammy’s TKCS - you buffer the 720 in blockstun, end in up-forward to jump and input the 3K as soon as you’re airborne.
Man, I wish I has the reaction time to punish lp dps better but for any stronger strength I buffer a cr. Lk so that I stay grounded until I’m ready to go up forward with 3 kicks. That will keep you from flying uncontrollably …
- Sent from my HTC eVo with Tapatalk
Yea, me too - right now I can only do that in practice. Some more experimentation has shown that there’s definitely more time to do it on the HP dp than on the lp, but the problem with the hp is that if you do it too EARLY, they’ll still be in invincibility frames, and the ultra will wiff. Right now I’m concentrating on blocked dps at point blank range - but some quick testing in actual matches proved that a little tricky to bait out. Guess shotos aren’t mashing like they used to. Well darn.
I did do a bit of testing with completely wiffed dps, with me at maybe df+hk range, and I could nail those exactly like you said, but buffering the 720 into cr. lk. I don’t see those alot in matches though. I do see the occasional Ken wiff an lp and try to catch a counterattack with hp - I bet you could nail that with ultra 2, or at least stop them from trying it. What I’m gonna try next time I get on is cammy - see if it can shut down her ability to escape from blocked cannon drills with a cannon spike that bounces her so far away. If I can catch a blocked cannon spike with Ultra 2, then one of my personal worst matchups just got alot better.
edit: huh - no luck on the ultra 2…but just a GH will catch her on the way down…I could swear it wouldn’t reach in vanilla. Oh well, one more thing learned. Not what I was hoping for, but useful nonetheless.
Can someone please help me out with a little footsies advice? It might sound silly but I just can’t hit anyone! They’re always either lingering out of range or jumping all over me and I can’t stop it or mount any kind of vortex (which I am USELESS at right now haha) I’m willing to learn and practice anything that anyone is willing to teach me, I need someone who can put a little time turning my crappy gief into more of a threat than just a punching bag. Any tips or sparing would be greatly appreciated
Gief has some pretty nasty footsies, but he also a few really laggy moves that can get you hurt if you put them out in the wrong situation. There are a couple characters that give me problems with footsies - Chun’s normals destroy me all day - but most of the time Gief can hold his own.
St. mp is your best friend. It comes out way faster than you would think mp would, and has decent range. Throwing this out during footsies will catch the startup of alot of moves.
A couple characters have significant moves stuffed by a well timed cr. lp - like horizontal blanka ball (I’m fairly sure…someone wanna verify?).
St. hk can cover some ground, but several character have a move that can punish the recovery if you’re too close. Mostly use this for an “anti-jump” as one of the guides around here put it - not so much “anti air” in that you’re not doing it on someone jumping in on you, but your doing it to catch someone jumping away from you, often predictively.
And then of course don’t forget lp.SPD. Oftentimes footsies will have characters dancing in and out of spd range, particularly characters with shorter range normals. Get good at doing SPD without jumping, and then learn the range of lp.SPD like the back of your hand. If someone tries to invade your space, give 'em a hug.
Oh, and another nasty trick is to buffer an exGH into cr.lk. Buffered properly, the GH won’t come out unless the lk connects, thus saving your meter until you snag them with a low hit and get a guaranteed knockdown - and a start to the vortex.
Just some food for thought:
Cammy-
Blocked cannon spike at the very least (not recommended) is punishable by down forward sweep. Better punish is dash forward SPD. Only rarely are they outside the range of dash forward hp.SPD. Also dash forward U1 or Super is guaranteed if you are fast with the 540, at the worst you will get an ex.SPD. Cammy cannot escape any of these punishes without FADC’ing cannon spike.
But, if they are doing cannon spike after anything except a perfect spiral arrow you don’t even need to let them cannon spike. Spiral arrow on block (anything except the very tip of SA hitting) is punishable with U1, Super, spd and super. If Cammy does sa very very deep you may whiff punish because she is still considered airborne, but if the Cammy is doing SA that deep it usually means free win.
Re:U2- Just my opinion, but if you block a DP and they go flying up in the air, you already have a guaranteed 230 with hp SPD or 220 with suplex (building almost a full bar for free as well as full oki games). U2 is as much about the threat of snagging AA or jumps as it is about actually landing the ultra. Sure you get the damage on a blocked DP, but you already are guaranteed damage and meter building in that instance, better to keep the threat of U2.
Seriously? All that will punish cannon dril…er, spiral arrow? Man, either I’m getting some serious lag online, or I need to put some more time in the lab - probably a combination.
Thanks for the tips man. Time to go practice, and then hopefully whip some Cammy’s on live.
Depending on the range, i mash LP Banishing flats, for a hit before ground and thus a mixup oppurtunity with a cross.
Can I get a run down on Giefs vortex please? I always feel that they can escape from me, how do I keep someone guessing?
Edit: I should really explain more than that!
I get knockdowns with SPD or sweep and I find I don’t have the time to safejump to start up another offense, why? o.O
I wouldn’t call myself an expert at it, but here’s the basics:
When you get a knockdown with gief, you can force a guessing game that’s in your favor - that’s essentially the definition of a vortex.
If you get a knockdown with an SPD, a jab GH will put you right back next to them. If you do it immediately after landing, then you can block any attempt at a reversal.
This is the typical setup to the vortex - you’ve knocked them down, and are now standing next to them. If they reversal, you can block and punish, if they attempt an attack that does not have invincibile startup, you can throw them, and if they jump, you can snag them with a jumping move or st.HK, if they neutral jump, headbutt is a good option, depending on the character, or crouch lariat or backdash depending on the character. You now have an answer for anything they could do, and the damage is almost always in your favor.
The other aspect of the vortex comes Zangief having some of the best crossup moves in the game, including the body splash which is easily capable of being the most ambiguous. After scoring a knockdown, jump at your opponent with either knees or splash. If it hits, you’ve got a free BnB and another knockdown. If it doesn’t, you can still start a blockstring and try for a tick SPD or suplex.
Haha, I think you’ve overegged the cake on this one my friend Thanks for all the info but it’s mainly that light Banishing flat I needed to know. I’ve played enough Giefs to know what he’s capable of, it’s the setup I need to know. I can’t seem to get a safe jump!!! But knowing the banishing flat thing helps.
Also didn’t know about the great cross up! This is something I was struggling to get going on. Whenever I got my knockdown, jumping in would just lead to be eating a reversal (not fun) can you suggest any ways to be at the right distance to jump in with the splash?
It will hit as a cross up if you jump from right beside them, but if you’re wanting an ambiguous crossup, I usually use it in a situation where not even I know which way it’s going to hit. For instance, after you use GH’s invincibility to snag a counter. Or when you have them in the corner - the fact that your jump hits the edge of the screen means you fall basically vertically, practically impossible to guess which side you land on. (note, having not taken this into the lab, it may be that you always land on one side or the other, depending on if the opponent moves or not. But either way, it sure as heck LOOKS ambiguous, so if you opponent doesn’t know, then it might as well be a guessing game).
Watch out for this with characters with good reversals, though. Freaking auto-direction-correct means that most of the time a shoto can guess wrong, and you’ll still eat a dp. If you land a suplex (or by some other means get a knockdown where you are next time them immediately), try timing an empty jump so that a reversal dp will get blocked. That’ll get them scared to reversal, and you can try a cross up again. This is a tactic you’ll only use on players good enough not to just mash out dp every time. If they’re doing that, then simpler tactics are required - skip the crossup and just block and punish.