I’m pretty sure it’s accurate, and I’ve had some friends test parts out of it to make sure. I actually don’t remember if I’ve updated the first post with the newest info, but even if I haven’t, it’s still mostly right. As for whether I can get to a place where I can actually use this stuff, ie get a knockdown? Well that’s a different question. I probably won’t be at Chen’s this weekend.
When you got time - vs. Vega, I think you should add ex-kickflip.
I updated the first page a little bit. I just copy/pasted my own file straight here, so you’ll notice some random notes in some places. I’ll fix that eventually.
The big update is on the Gouken section. I think mixing up between cr. jab o-s sweep, cr. short, and throw is your best bet. What do you guys think?
I personally like to throw in the early splash into 360k every now and then, especially if I see that they try to counter a lot or try to jump away. This way, it prevents them from jumping away. If they try to counter, the splash misses so I can’t get countered and land and throw them. I think it will lose if they expect it and throw you as you land. But most people won’t react fast enough as they see the splash and try to block. I guess you could also land and start the bnb in case they try to jump away. That’s probably a safer option than landing and trying to throw. You can start it off by os-throw.
hey david, in your first post you have a small section about giefs short jump, and you refrence a video, but you didnt actually post the link to it
great thread by the way, alot of really useful info, props:tup:
edit: oh, there several parts where the video links are missing, in fact none are posted at all so maybe you just havent gotten to adding them yet?
oh also you list fuerte’s wake up as losing to up fierce headbutt, but i think ex guac should beat it right? maybe i just read what you’re saying wrong
i dont get what you mean by; “meaty splash…then c.short os with…” splash to c.short is a block string there is no room for os.
you can only os if they back dash an attack (at least the only useful ones for gief), for example after a spd you can do c.lk os ex hand, this beats jump back dash and block but loses to dp’s.
Personally that is the only good os gief has, also c.lk os sweep but this one is applicable in very little situations. Most of the time knockdowns I get allow me to follow with splash mixup.
Edited a few things.
I don’t have a console right now, so could you guys help me out with a few things? I’m gonna start putting up questions I have but can’t currently answer on post #5 of this thread, and if you could take a look at them and try to work them out, I’d really appreciate it.
These are the questions I have up there right now:
–How well does unthrowable lariat work against the throw at the end of dp fadc throw?
–How many seconds does a whiffed ultra takes off the clock before Gief is punishable?
–Against which characters and in which situations can a neutral jump up+fierce combo punish a whiffed special move (like a dp, flash kick, etc)?
–Which reversal special moves lose to meaty ex spd?
–Which characters’ wakeups lose to up+fierce headbutt? I tested it successfully against Abel, Claw, Fuerte, and Viper, but I don’t know about anyone else. And if some characters’ reversals trade instead of losing, that’d be really good to know too, since a trade like that could lead to a dizzy into huge damage in your favor.
Like… Only Gouken’s Hurricane, and ultras. Has to be over -40 on block.
Chun’s Ultra works for sure.
SETUP: Atomic Suplex, wait a sec (usually a jab or short), meaty Headbutt. The headbutt will whiff if they do nothing.
Cammy’s Cannon spike usually trades or outright lose, EX or Normal.
Fei’s Flame Kick has the same frame data, it trades or outright loses EX or normal.
Blanka’s normal upball trades, EX wins clean
Sagat’s TU Trades (really bad if you don’t stun him), EX wins clean.
hmm. So it’s a good idea to do wake up headbutts against Cammy and Fei. Good to know those options.
I would say it’s also a good idea against Sagat if you know he’s taken some stun damage.
You’ll trade, he’ll get stunned, and you can quick rise and Ultra him.
Winner= you.
good shit with the fadc update -
just wanted to make sure - do all strengths of uppercut (LP vs. MP shoryuken, LP vs. MP tiger uppercut) cause the same amount of block stun? What about akuma’s or ken’s multi-hit ones - like what if akuma fadc’s out of 2nd hit or 3rd hit, is the block stun the same? You know what I’m getting at.
Don’t know if this has been answered but whiffing giefs ultra takes a little less than 1 second off the clock. This is timed from the beginning of his ultra till the end of the darkened screen, which is the period where a hadoken is frozen in place.
I would’ve guessed maybe 2 or 3 seconds before i checked it out, but nope.
Anyone else care to confirm?
Also, on block, ken and sagat’s ex-dp are punishable with FP headbutt combo. This is not the case if they forward or backward FADCs out of it during the first two hits.
edit-- on block, sagat’s ex.dp has either one or two blocked hits. A crouching gief at approximately the max range of his c.short will block the first hit of sagat’s ex.dp and the rest of the dp will whiff. In this case, jumping immediately after the last frame gief is in block stun gives you enough time to FP headbutt combo sagat. If you block both hits because gief is standing or crouching too close, you will not have enough time to hit sagat during his recovery frames.
I practiced the OS into SPD for about an hour tonight. I think I’m starting to get the hang of it. I’m probably doing it correctly about 25% of the time right now. The only way I can check is to record myself doing it and then play as Abel to try to roll out of the splash ex SPD OS.
Akuma’s non-ex demon flip into whiffed slide tackle is punishable with FP headbutt combo as well. This is especially nice since we have our fierce headbutt, close MK xx fierce gh insta-dizzy combo that we can whip out against him.
Jump up as he descends from the flip and tag him with the headbutt as he finishes sliding forward. You can beat the slide tackle clean. Make sure not to land on his leg, though, cause then you trade attacks. Although with the stun akuma will take from it, the trade is in gief’s favor.
edit-- ex demon flip into slide tackle is not susceptible to fierce headbutt combo because akuma passes underneath a neutral jumping gief even at full screen.
Yeah but you’ll rarely see a decent Akuma throw out the slide unless he’s positive that it’ll hit. It’s very punishable.
^ When can an akuma be positive it will hit? I don’t think he can be.
In any case, ultra david asked for people to figure out which whiffed special moves are punishable with the fierce headbutt combo (see post #5) and that’s what I’m trying to do. I do not know what he plans to do with the information. Maybe you could help out with this task and figure out some conditions and special moves that are punishable and let UD be the one to decide whether it is useful.
When you’re spinning there with PPP lariat. But if they mistime it, then can still get hurt. So you’ll pretty much never see that move thrown out. But headbutt is a good counter for demon flips in general. They’ll usually look for the demon into combo when they’re down on life and you’re turtling.
^ Yeah I definitely agree with you on countering demon flip with headbutts in general. The flip leads into nasty mix-ups if they aren’t afraid to use it; but with 600 stun or 750 counter-stun threatening their entry, headbutt does a good job of keeping them scared and limiting their options to fireballs and footsies.
I tried to incorporate some OS EXGH on a rog tonight. I caught him when the tried to headbutt away. It was sweet. He didn’t try to headbutt anymore after that. I still have to work on it though to get the timing down 100%.