Hey, I’m just wondering a few things as I continue to play Zangief (Vega regular here, but no stranger to Gief in other 2D games), typically when I cross up body splash, if they block, I will do a 6 + LK and than from that buffer an SPD. Typically if they don’t block I’ll do a 2 + LK and cancel that into a lariat. I’ve been also toying with the idea of doing a 6 + LK and than buffering that into an ultra instead of a normal SPD, but it seems every opponent, noob and above seem to ALWAYS jump out of it, but they almost never escape a Strong SPD buffer after my LK. I’ve seen some replay vids of Gief players buffering the ultra after a 2 + SK, and it seems to oddly work. Whether or not their opponents are less clever than mine, I don’t know.
If they are jumping out you aren’t doing U1 fast enough, it sounds like you are taking just that extra chunk of time to do the 720; or you are rushing it and they are still in stun. Also, if they are always jumping out plan accordingly and meet them in the air with a j.lp or j.mp, which can reset with you very close. Just go over all of your options vs. all of their options on wakeup and see how they react when knocked down.
the other option…how’s your link game? Most players are conditioned at this point to expect Gief’s to tick off a singular c.lk or c.lp. If your competition is jumping, then simply do a second c.lk…it will stop them from jumping out and lead to ANOTHER knockdown via c.lk->EXGH. Not saying worry about doing 4 c.lk, I top out at two these days (consistency > reduced dmg c.lk)…but simply pull a second c.lk out.
For me, on Body splash wake-up - and no I’m not some elite player, but if the splash connects, I simply do b-n-b that ends in EXGH combo. If the splash is blocked, I think about how they’ve reacted so far and do one of a few options. If they are DP happy folks, I just block. If they aren’t DP happy folks, I usually spin a single 360 and negative edge trigger into an atomic suplex. shrug nothing complex…good meter…easy to perform, etc. If it’s someone like say Rose who’s reversal game ISN’T air tight, I’ll often do a tick into an EX SPD - just for the invincibility frames shrug.
I honestly save Ultra as punishment more so than mix-ups…if they aren’t ‘ducking’…they are jumping out.
It’s stated in the match-up thread here that learning the Jab > SPD range is precisely one of the requirements to winning with him, so I’d make sure you’re doing that as well. Though I prefer st.mp > SPD/Ultra since by the time I recover the opponent is usually out of recovery and I can nab them.
If you land the cross body splash on wake-up…my my, I honestly think this is my favorite time with Zangief. xD
I love knocking people down and scaring the shit out of them…making them guess what I’ll do and where I’ll go. My favorite combos are:
st.lp x2 > st.lk x2 > Green Hand or EX Green Hand
st.lk x3 or x4 > Hand (it happens sometimes)
For some reason I just like pushing the opponent back with st.mp, such an awesome fucking normal. Make sure you’re working your opponent into the corner as well, it’s vital to keep an eye on your and your opponent’s position all the time.
If you can learn the st.lk x Hand links, it’ll help you immensely. Also, you can back dash and forward dash while buffering your ultra. Vangief shows this in some of his matches, it’s not common but it is incredibly handy in some situations (say vs. Abel’s U2 for example).
I’ll admit I have some problems with LK + Hands links, at best I can cr. LP + Hands links… sometimes. In terms of pushing people into the corners, a great strategy seems like the EX German Suplexes, but the grab range on that is just kinda odd. Seems like it needs to be as close as a normal throw. However, I do notice it has armor, and can absorb jabs, but I’m not sure if it can absorb a flurry of jabs at close range…
Gief’s suplex is point blank. Does killer damage (220) and builds a stupid-good amount of meter. On top of that it will cover a lot of distance; so landing it mid-screen will do a lot of the work towards putting someone in a corner. On top of all of that you end up right on top of the opponent. It is nice. Start using it as a punish.
If the other person is mashing up-close normals then they are inexperienced in the Gief matchup, so I wouldn’t worry too much about if they will break armor with mashed jabs; just wreck them.
Also, if there is any doubt in your mind as to “Am I too far away to suplex?” you should just switch to SPD until you know for certain when you are in range.
LISTEN to that last line…don’t be me playing against friend’s Sagat
"Ha I got in, now you’ll never escape" goes for atomic too far away Gief puts hands in the air
"NNOOOOOO!!!"
(Unreall gets destroyed by TU FADC combo on sight)
Well I mean in ST days he’s got a little hesitation when he starts it, but then he hits the cartoon ‘dash’ speed and grabs mofos…now…its like one of them slomo hugs from a chick flick…
Anytime I do it I just feel like grabbing my oppoenents controller and landing the most damamging combo FOR them…
Yeah the Running (More like prancing) Bear Grab is pretty bad IMO. The EX one is just a step above, but if they’re expecting it, its pointless. So what kinda range does the EX SPD have, cause the most bizarre thing happened. I was playing a Balrog, I was in the corner, on the ground, he was right up next to me. On wake-up, directly as I get up, I EX SPD, I hear the EX noise, see Gief flash yellow, and somehow Balrog grabs me with a throw. He didn’t move back or jump, just straight out beat my EX SPD with a standard throw.
No real mystery. EX-SPD is throwable and is active in 4 frames, while regular throws are active in 3 frames. It has roughly the same range as the mp.SPD I believe, haven’t checked the hit-box images in a while so I don’t know for sure.
That is awfully incorrect. You mean “…throwable and active on the 4th frame, while regular throws are active on the 3rd frame.” Each of his SPD’s stay active for 2 frames. But, here are those numbers you are looking for ? good thing I saved these to my frames spreadsheet for Zangief.
Plus it looks extra cool. Also, to HCM Batman, I think your spreadsheet data is wrong. The EX SPD data is correct, but I believe that the active frames for regular SPDs are frames 2 and 3, not frames 3 and 4.
Been practicing more with buffering the ultra from a standing lk. Really works awesomely well, and now, when I DO miss, I understand why, cause I can kinda see I did the motion too fast. But I tell ya, buffering from standing lk is really awesome for some reason, I get more results off that than crouching lp or lk.
That is it exactly.