Why would you spend so much time trying to find this when you could practice more on fundamental things that’ll make your game stronger with any character in any fighting game such as footsies and spacing?
I mean, why would you WANT to cross Ryu up in the corner when you get so much mileage keeping him there? The match up isn’t even so bad that you wouldn’t need to specifically find stuff for him anyways. If you’re gonna cross him up it’s better to tenshin afterwards to put him back in which case you can do if your “both blockables” are meaty enough for you to jab afterwards.
Because I like to have every advantage I can get and don’t limit myself to “oh, the match up isn’t that bad.” Why do you waste your time with half ass replies? I don’t just walk up to the opponent and trust in the power of my inner NAH, expecting Dragon Kicks to connect every time. You practice multiple things at once. Like playing footsies for a while, backing off to give the illusion that you’re gonna take a breather. But in reality I was setting up the spacing for my MP Lunge, then practicing my frame traps and possibly my BnB, and then trying new set ups on the KD I just earned or using multiple ways to stay in my opponent’s face if he didn’t press buttons.
Also, you know. Simply being able to cross up a cornered opponent with a dive kick establishes a guessing game heavily in your favor. You can never have enough options on your opponent. What kind of jack ass gives the opponent assurance that he’ll never give up the corner advantage, so the opponent should never worry about blocking for a cross up? Considering that it’s very hard to tell when dive kicks are going to cross up when you aren’t the one doing it, that’s a pretty damn valuable threat. Do a Tenshin after a blocked jab? Why settle for that? Why not go for the cross up and go for cst.MK xx JC? I’m pretty sure he isn’t looking for that, and he’s not going to react to it in time. It hits, I get a free 180 damage into a meaty command grab/meaty overhead/meaty cr.MP/whatever reset option you want and a free frame trap that puts him back in the corner if he blocks the right way.
Guess you wouldn’t know that when you don’t try to max out your character.
Anyway, enough salt for now. Another q. Patch notes said they added a strike hurt box to all Shoulders…does anyone have an idea what it looks like or where they placed it?
How do you know when to play footsies or go in for a divekick with Yun? Being a beginner, I have no idea when the appropriate time is to go for divekicks or just play footsies and bait. Whenever I attempt a divekick the opponent usually knows 95% percent of the time and either jumps causing it to whiff or hit but not allowing me to combo off of it, or I get SRK’d. This has pretty much caused me to not really go in for divekicks as it seems as if they are easily readable.
Also is ending the general BnB with LP shoulder still a block string? I see in some threads that it’s still listed as being one, but that it isn’t a true block string. In what situations exactly would you ever use shoulder or palms?
Lastly if your opponent blocks a meaty divekick, can you go straight into a blockstring or do you not have enough frame advantage for it to not be reversable? If so what do you do instead?
You can’t really teach those things. You get a feel for the game with experience, but a problem with beginners is that they fall into patterns without noticing - and sometimes will develop predictable responses to patterns as well. If your opponent always counters your dive kicks, then it means you’ve become predictable. Do you do a dive kick every time you jump? Why don’t you just do a neutral jump and see how they react, or even a forward empty jump. Mix things up and suddenly your opponent won’t have an exact read. They’ll realize they can’t just predict what you’ll do next and will have to react. Eventually, landing dive kicks won’t be a problem.
Yes, LP Shoulder is not a true blockstring and an opponent with fast execution can do an invincible move when they see the shoulder is coming. It all comes back to not being predictable. If they can’t do anything about it, though, no reason to stop.
Ending your strings with shoulder pushes the opponent closer to the corner, adds some chip and puts you in a comfortable spot where you can even re-initiate your offense with a low dive kick. This spot is also comfortable for your opponent though: it might be the max range for their best poke, and you’re at a slight disadvantage after a blocked shoulder.
Thanks, I also notice a lot of Yun players using st.MPxxLP shoulder when playing footsies rather than the original stMP,stHP,B+HP, is it used over the target combo now for the same reasons you specified above? Or is the target combo still useful?
These aren’t really simple questions (and there are a lot of them!) but having a hard time figuring them out on my own. If someone could tell me how to figure them out, that’s cool too.
Mad props to anyone who answers any of these and thank you for reading them at the very least.
Can someone tell me just how much the cr.LK hurt box has been extended? Using MS paint on the hit box images or something. I really like this tool but losing to Viper’s Thunder Knuckle is discouraging. I’d also like a peek at this new supposed strike hurt box on Shoulders, but I can’t figure out when or where to attack…or with what.
If I hit cst.MK during the last active frame, do any new combo possibilities open up? (in particular, I’m hoping for MP/HP Palm, MP Shoulder, or walk forward cr.HK…)
What’s the frame data on cst.HP? The recovery cancelled through special moves on the first hit definitely isn’t 20f, otherwise MP Shoulder would combo and Palm wouldn’t be so easy to interrupt as a frame trap.
Can fst.HP lead into anything on counter hit?
How many frames is the opponent knocked down after cst.MK, cst.HK, fst.HK, cr.HK, fw.HP, TC3, FW Throw, Back Throw, TC4, all Lunge Punches, MP Shoulder, HP Shoulder, EX Shoulder, MP/HP Palm, EX Palm, all Dragon Kicks, and cr.HK during Genei Jin? (from the first moment you regain control of your character to the first frame they can control their character, and the quick rise frames if applicable.) This is a pretty big one…
6a. When Genei Jin wears off during the start up of the move, does it retain Genei Jin properties? (damage and stun revert? can it juggle? is the frame data still in Genei Jin?)
6b. When Genei Jin wears off during the active frames of the move, does it retain Genei Jin properties? (does it use Genei Jin frame data for the recovery frames? Can you still dash cancel them? Would connecting a cst.MK reset the juggle counter in this period, or does it say "Genei Jin juggle still or cannot juggle, not Genei Jin anymore?)
6c. When Genei Jin wears off during the recovery frames of the move, does it retain Genei Jin properties? (does it extend my total recovery frames from doing, say, cr.HK? Or does it use Genei Jin’s cr.HK recovery frames?)
Frame data for Yun’s dashes? FA1 and FA2 frames on block ~ dash forward?
Does U2 combo into anything? Not some herp derp 2 punch drop your ass but like the full Ultra. lol trying to find any possible use for this…
Frame data for the following (start up/active/recovery/on block/on hit): All jumping attacks excluding Dive Kicks.
Yes, but connecting palm and mp shoulder are most likely impossible (unless you manage to anti-air with the last possible frame, maybe). You can more easily connect a HP Lunge after a meaty cs.MK. Walk up cr.HK also works, but it’s really hard.
The second hit probably does the most amount of block/hitstun, but if it’s like Yang’s, you can’t cancel the second part. Honestly, I had even forgotten what close fierce looked like and I had to look it up. I never use it.
No. On CH, you’d be at +2.
Properties are retained.
I don’t think you can combo it at all, outside of GJ, jump in and FA. I’ve been trying to get U2 to work, too. No luck so far.
That’s all I can answer for now, I’ll try figuring out Yun’s new hitboxes tomorrow or some other day.
couldn’t sleep again and spent a long ass time trying to do some things
MP Shoulder and Palm apparently cannot be juggled off cst.MK outside of Genei Jin no matter what (not even EX Palm, which seems to juggle everything)
Does cst.MK have to hit on the last active frame to do walk up cr.HK or is it possible without it (just really hard?)
Yes, it’s like Yang’s in that aspect. I wanted to use it for frame traps as well as some character specific combos (70 damage on first hit) but the data is not there or wrong.
If I hit on the last active frame that means I’d be +4 then though. ballin
Genei Jin questions were trying to exploit a potential flaw in the system that I thought had occurred last night, but I can’t get it to happen again. Basically I did a Genei Jin reset into another combo while still in Genei Jin, finishing with cst.MK into Ultra 1 and the full animation played. Haven’t been able to do it since so I’m chalking it up to a glitch for now (or maybe the dummy just landed and got hit since I had it on no block.)
stupid ass U2. i can’t even use it to react to fireballs zzzz
SRK Wiki doesn’t have the stuff I asked about which is why I asked. They never give the knock down data, and almost never put jumping attack frames on hit/block. But this time they also excluded either the entire nj normal set or the entire jump forward set (guessing nj set since a random Jump up H is in the wiki.) I guess all the data might be the same but I find it pretty unlikely when you look at every other character…Also, some of their data is wrong. As is eventhubs.
How do you practice them? I can land them below the knee pretty easily in the lab, but as soon as I get out and play a match it becomes next to impossible for me to land one meaty and I usually end up being thrown due to it hitting high.
When I DK hits above the knee does that automatically mean that the opponent has +on frame advantage? What do I do in those situations where the DK hits high, just OS throw?
Keep practicing meaty dk and only use divekicks when you know that you’ll be able to aim it.
Divekicks are unsafe on block, especially if poorly aimed, so I personally mash backdash or dp(lol). If you aim it poorly you should expect to get punished though.
Yun is similar to Rufus in that they both have to establish a ground game to make their divekicks harder to deal with.
I think you have to meaty it AND it’s really hard.
Knockdown time varies depending on the character. I don’t remember who, but some rise faster and others rise slower, though I think most characters rise at the same time.
There’s a way for me to manually count frames but it takes some time. I’ll work on getting the data for dashes and FA on block. If you have any other requests, let me know.
Edit: New info. After a FA1 on hit or block, Yun is at -2. After a blocked FA2, he’s at +4.
I’m only talking about poorly spaced ones. If I aim well I go for cr lp and start my pressure. Blocked divekicks that hit too high should be a free punish so if I mash backdash or dp it’s just me hoping my opponent messes up.
How exactly do you establish a ground game with the shotos or other characters that have a strong zoning game?
And what would Yuns standard punishers be? I heard TC4 is good, but im not sure.
Lastly I see a lot of people(Kazunoko especially) keep pressure without resorting to divekicks and instead attacking using jumpins and using divekicks to mix it up. I’m guessing this is what I should be aiming for? If so, what are Yuns best normals for jumpins and why?
Dive kicks are still an option and you have to establish them in the game. Yun plays the spacing game with them as well as his normals. Walk forward, neutral jump right outside the range of their pokes, dive kick in if they whiff something. Mix it up with forward jumps and simply walking towards them once the threat of the dive kick is in their heads. Yun has a great cr. MK that can be cancelled into LP Shoulder or MP Lunge if you can confirm the hit. And there’s st. MP, of course, probably Yun’s most used button in footsies.
Against shotos, patience. Try to learn their fireball timing, stay on the ground or neutral jump until you find an opening.
TC4 is a terrible punish. St.MP xx HK Dragon Kicks does more damage and it’s much easier. Add an extra cr.MP or two if you’re close enough, but if you do, finish the combo with MK DK instead of HK, as the heavy version will whiff on shotos from that distance. There are better, more creative punishes with focus attack, such as FA2/3, MP Shoulder, HP Lunge or FA2/3, EX Palm, LP Shoulder, HP Lunge.
Kazunoko likes to use Yun’s aerial TC (9LP > 6HP in numpad notation), I assume because it breaks focus and sets up an instant overhead against large characters.
Yun’s dive kick is still a huge threat, 2012 did a great job of nerfing it to the point where it’s still a very solid tool but not abusable and broken like in pre-patch (along with his command grab). Like many Yuns said above, neutral jump a lot. The reason why Yun can spam neutral jump and get away (unlike most casts) with it is because he can change is position during neutral jump (duh) due to dive kicks and your opponents are not looking to punish neutral jump and instead are looking for dive kicks. Mix it up with forward jump-in with mk, it’s the best for jumping in as it has the most range and has good angle. I’ve seen kazunoko use ONE dive kick out of 5-7 regular jumps he did (neutral, regular jump in) and as many as 70~90% of jumps resulting in dive kicks. If u want to use dive kicks then u gotta have solid footsies and ESPECIALLY anti-air to keep your opponents grounded.
Against shotos neutral jump and bulldog your way in until you’re at a range where throwing fireballs will carry a risk of being jump’d in or dive’kicked. Also, it doesn’t hurt to practice reaction mp.shoulder to blow through fireballs. Also, if you’re feeling ballsy you can try to palm projectiles to get u a bit of meter before going in, and see their reaction towards ur palms, as in a lot of the cases, i’ve noticed opponents moving forward to try and prevent u from palming.
TC4 is a bad punish in most parts but not always. For example, in a match where Yun sets the pace and pretty much has the upper-hand in the neutral game (pretty much against all non-zoning characters, examples being gief, mak, abel, dudley, sak, cody etc etc), TC4 can be used to greatly further any advantages you have such as positioning, meter, and life (the 3 most important resources in this game). For example, if you have a life lead and you notice that you are constantly coming out on top in neutral-game and wanna further better your stance in the game, TC4 will blow your opponent all the way to the other screen giving you time to either build meter, take or give space/position (if you want to play safe and maybe get in safely with ex-lunge then it may be good for u to stay where u are after TC4 and build meter where as if you want to take away their space and put them against the wall it’s better to follow through and take space).
I use TC4 to whiff punish Zangief hard until he realizes he can’t be whiffing his retarded st.hk, cr.mk, cr.hk, and greenhand against yun or he’s gonna have to deal with more surprise ex-lunge punches and overall be in a bad position. (u’ll be surprised how many “good” zangief players (i’m talkin 4500pp+) still do this shit to test if they can get away with it or not. Once they realize they have to play solid footsie with their ST.mp, u can footsie with ur st.mk and st.mp xx shoulder (wouldn’t recommend doing it too often as they’ll start to grab u out of it, though it’s hard to react 360 so i do it like 50% of the time)
