Is team synergy *really *that important? I’m running Cody/King - is there any synergy there?
There are slight differences if the synergy is good. Take this team for example: Cody/Sagat. Sagat not on point, ok… But if Cody tags out after a successful Criminal Upper, Sagat is able to connect two fHK into Tiger Uppercut! Massive DMG!
With what little I know about Cody, I’d imagine canceling CU on hit into King’s knees does nice damage, and on block, it allows King a free mixup. Can’t be that bad, right?
Also remember that on a very basic level, team synergy is important because of launcher height. For example, Julia’s launcher pops the opponent very low, which makes some tag-in combos (like Guile’s f. MK, cr. MP, cr. MP xx Flash Kick) extremely difficult. Other characters will have higher launchers which allow for even bigger tag-in combos.
Another basic thing to keep in mind is the whole “battery” idea - that is, one character who’s great at building meter (like Guile or Alisa), and one character who’s great at using meter (like Zangief or Bryan). In general “battery” characters have poor EX moves, or EX moves that aren’t necessary to their gameplans (characters who need to use EX moves to have a good reversal or a good anti-air aren’t usually great batteries).
A more subjective factor is the idea of synergy between playstyles. To a lot of people, a Guile Dhalsim team, while formidable on defence, wouldn’t be a good idea because if you fall behind, neither character is good at making a comeback, and in a game where the timer is so important, that can be really crippling. Similarly, a Zangief Hugo team would be intimidating up close, but it’s vulnerable to being zoned out the entire match by someone running Guile, Jack X or Raven.
That’s three basic reasons you should think about team synergy. Other factors include the specific combos different characters are able to do with each other, or your ability to cover one character’s bad matchups with the other character.
You can be perfectly good without really thinking about team synergy and picking characters you like, but you can be better if you do choose to give it some thought.
How important are ABC combos in this game? I find myself never using ABC’s or launchers no matter how hard I try to remember. Am I missing something big or am I misdirecting my goals?
It’s an easy tool for punishment. for example: your opponent throws out an attack with high recovery but also high pushback. your char can’t link anything into another normal so you just go with boostcombo into launcher/super/exmove.
I often use this with Julia. I punish moves at midrange with cLK x cMK x cHP into EXCADC Party Crasher
I like to do abc ex kikoken abc ex kikoken abc ex kikoken abc launch. It’s about as good a use for your meter as possible. I rate it as just below Cross Assault and have both people spam taunt.
You should NEVER punish with ABC unless it’s your only option. Counter poking into boost in footsies, ok. But PUNISHING a whiffed special move with ABC? eewwww… Never do that please.
First, no need to hit confirm a punish. Second, if you can reach with c.lk, surely you can also reach with c.mk, so it’s already better to do: c.mk > Launcher or: c.mk, c.hp > Launcher. But ideally for punish you should use hk or hp straight into manual launcher or a special move xx switch when possible.
And if you read a hadoken and jump in, you know your j.hk is going to hit, so again no need to hit confirm with ABC, BC, or even C. Just go from j.hk straight into raw Launcher/special (though with some teams C > Launcher does a little more damage, depends on your partner’s post-launch combo).
I never said you have to use ABC as a punish and never mentioned anything about whiffing special moves. It’s just an opportunity for moderate damage if you have no other option.
I agree with doing just one fast move and cancel into launcher as an viable option but this method is also execution heavy.
well, consider this example: me as Julia vs Sagats boosted cHP. If I block it on a certain range it’s quite safe except against cLK and super. Doing cLK into laucher is ok, but what else can I do?
Here’s another one involving a special: Julia vs Cody’s Criminal Upper. A blocked CU is -6 but it pushes away really far. Starting her BnB with cHP(which has 6 frames startup) isn’t possible because I’m out of range, cMK has 8 frames startup. So, my only options are the same: cLK or super. Boosting or canceling it into her BnB’s is fine to me then.
I know it’s character specific(ryu or kaz can do way better here)… That’s why i said it’s just an option.
Very well argued, I agree. Both you and Hades are right. Hades is right that if you have time to do a full punish, like a blocked DP or a completely whiffed special, or jumping over a fireball, you definitely shouldn’t do ABC launchers. I see a lot of people doing this, and it upsets me just as much as it seems to upset Vulcan Hades. I think it comes from a mentality where people are so used to doing cross rushes that they immediately do them whenever they see an opening, even when that opening would allow for far more optimised combos if the player had the presence of mind to exploit it.
It will get thrashed out of people in time, though. And I can respect that it’s fairly difficult to decide in a split second after blocking a move whether you have enough time to load up your heavy attacks straight into launcher, or if you need to suck it up and start with a light attack.
But you’re also right (and I specifically agree with your examples about Julia, as I main her myself) that a lot of the time, the only thing you have that hits far and fast enough to punish a move on block is something like a cr. LK, in which case your punishment options are limited to ABC x launcher or A x launcher, or something like that. Which version is optimal depends on your character and on your anchor’s tag-in combo.
That’s why I didn’t quote you (Jokyu). I knew you were talking about punishment scenarios with small windows to punish (e.g. punishing a chain that’s -4 or -5 on block).
I just wanted to clarify that ABC is one of the worst things you can use to punish someone. B, C or A, C > Launcher is already better than ABC > Launcher. And even if you can’t link into another normal, it doesn’t matter. With a lot of characters you can simply link c.lk or c.mk into a special move xx switch or like your Julia example, chain into an EX move that allows you to keep comboing further (crumple/ground/wall bounce), which will likely do more damage and give less grey health than ABC into launcher. But again, doing A,C or B,C > EX move is probably better than using A,B,C. Also depends on what you’re doing after but full chain just scales the damage pointlessly.
Punishing stuff with ABC > Launcher is often giving up on 250+ guaranteed damage. That’s what I wanted to say, but it wasn’t directed at you and your post.
I actually did see that and I didn’t feel offended in any way. Still, I had the urge to clarify my point of view which led to a fair discussion and I appretiate that.
[quote=“Vulcan Hades, post: 7441660, member: 26486”. But again, doing A,C or B,C > EX move is probably better than using A,B,C. Also depends on what you’re doing after but full chain just scales the damage pointlessly.[/quote]
Depends on your team…for exemple,with Poison you can do more damage with ABC launcher than ABC ex move.
like this thread.
In regards to a few things
team synergy is important and so is team damage (maximize damage) worst way to lose is a combo you do that only does 400 instead of that last bit of 10hp. Find how to practically do it.
Sf are great point characters. dp characters on point always except akuma. Akuma is better as anchor only because he can air fireball and run away.
If a character is slow that means they’re suited to be an anchor. Bad team is lili/asuka. Two anchors who both eat a lot of meter and are slow. Another example is paul. the best example would be the best anchor in the game, gief. The point i’m trying to make with all these character is that your point character should be able to get your slow character in the sweet spot where they can harass and damage the opponent.
ABC only if you need to do or you can do what vulcan hades suggested and see what you can do to maximize damage. Example, Ken ground tatsu. Someone messes up a abc launcher. walk up cr. mk to hk> tc into lili and into a stupid near 50% one meter combo. That’s doing the thing i said above, maximizing damage.
Lastly learn from your mistakes. Be aware of what’s messing you up. There is a solution to everything in the game.
That is all. Thanks for the great forum guys. Keep it up.
The SFxT community is pretty special. 
I think the raw launcher is pretty underrated, because it destroys pretty much all low attacks. Some players just love to spam these cr. jabs and lk’s… so much that you can even empty jump and launch them into oblivion.
The sooner you notice that habit the better. However, you should use it sparingly, since most players tend to notice that something’s off after 2 or even 3 times lol
Yeah but launchers can also be slightly slow and if it’s blocked, or god forbid if it whiffs, you will die a horrible, painful death.
Raw launchers can be risky against some of the characters with faster lights and moves with lower hurtboxes, but is a solid crush option against everyone else.
Yeah you guys are right. But it can be a nice comeback/troll tool. I ran into a Ryu/Sakura team yesterday and that guy just loved to spam cr. lk’s with Sakura. The raw launcher helped me a lot, because he was beating my cr. mp’s all the time >< I just crossed him up and went straight for the launcher. It worked twice but after that he switched to ex moves and throws. It can be devastating, if you analyse your opponent quickly.
I find raw launcher a great tool to kill off auto piloting. Reading an incoming low after a jump-in or an upcoming blockstring that starts low can lead to serious unscaled damage. Launcher can look like a reversal DP at times IMO. Terrible to whiff though!