since we have kara karakusa, does hp xx hayate cancel > kara karakusa > hp xx hayate cancel (rinse repeat) work as a loop? can someone test?
On a diff combo topic, one of the things i’ve been using to mix people up after abare is old school 3s style jumping fierce, dash under, karakusa. Seems to trick many. if you have meter (in the corner) you can follow with hp xx ex hayate > f.lk > dash under… or if you have 3 bars and they’re not cornered you can fadc the ex hayate then f.lk > dash under (karakusa blah blah blah).
Hayate > Kara Kara isn’t going to work as a “loop” well, cuz pushing buttons generally beats it. From what I’ve tested, Kara EX Karakusa will connect after any strength of Hayate, so it’s a bit more reliable, but, you still have to deal with focus breakers and it doesn’t catch back dashers (possibly catches walking back after MP and HP Hayate though).
I think we’re sleeping on the importance of MP or HP Hayate > Kara REGULAR Throw. It’s pretty good, does good stun, and is generally a safer option than going for the karakusa.
Against some characters if you take a slight step forward after karakusa it allows you net more hits.
example: i used to think the best karakusa follow up for cody was s.hp xx hayate cancel, s.mp xx mp hayate. Then i figured out i could just walk forward slightly after karakusa to be able to do 3 s.mp’s into hayate.
After a karakusa > fierce xx hayate cancel, hk karakusa is within range against all characters. You’re at plus 5 after the cancel so hk karakusa is pretty safe, i use this a lot.
meaty oroshi->cr.FP works
after a cr.FP, dash->oroshi immediately is a perfect set up for this, she will slam her hand on the ground the first frame they get up
from this we can infer that:
meaty oroshi->ultra
->s.FP
this also makes oroshi completely safe on block (positive even, best case)
oroshi also has a LOOOOOT of hit-stop, on whiff it recovers almost immediately, on hit it freezes for quite a while, making for possibly confirmable ultra
I’ll definitely play around with this. It seems like it would be dependent on how far you are from the opponent when you hit them with the c.HP.
Also, I didn’t get to test finish testing which karakusa hits after which hayate… I went to a friend’s and we played for about 4.5 hours straight!
I did find out that you can HK Karakusa after MP Hayate and grab Duds and Ibuki (didn’t work on Ken, Ryu, and Honda). After a HP Hayate, you can grab them with the half circle back+f+MK karakusa.
But, when in doubt, kara EX karakusa seems like the safest bet. It grabs even at the max range of lp Hayate (creates the most space inbetween you and the opponent). I can’t do lk kara kara very well, but I think it’s faster or just as fast as Hk Karakusa. It’s so hard for me to test, since sometimes I think I’m canceling the f+lk on different frames! I really suck at this testing thing…
I don’t know if this has been discussed or realized but since it’s not on the OP, I’ll go ahead and post it.
Wake-up/Meaty Combo:
**Meaty st.MP > Ultra I. **
Counter Hit Combo:
CH st.MP > Ultra I (st.mp must be spaced).
I figured both these combos were pretty obvious considering you can substitute cr.hp with the Ultra in both these examples. St.mp leaves you at +5 on hit and has a ridiculous amount of active frames to work with (7 frames). So it didn’t take much to figure this out.
As far as practicality goes, it may not be the best hit confirm into Ultra on wake up since you have a relatively small window to work with… but buffering the Ultra motion and verifying if it hits or not is doable. As far as the CH combo goes, it isn’t all that practical but at least you know it’s doable.
I’m also pretty sure you can link a meaty MP Oroshi > Ultra I on wake up considering the amount of frame advantage it grants on hit and that it has a ridiculous active frame window (similar to st.mp). I’ve yet to test it, but theoretically, it should work. I’ll test it out when I get the chance and post about it later.
for me it was easier to do 346+hk. i only tried on ryu but i’m guessing it will work just as well on other characters.
also, j.hp can cross up and it’s actually kind of easy to cross up big characters like hakan with it.
this whole hayate feint business has got me pretty worn out but i finally found a way that i’m more successful with. first of all, i thought that after hayate feint you could just press mp and it would come out. problem was sometimes it would come out fast, other times it would come out slow. it’s really just like memorizing the timing on a 1 or 2 frame link so i decided to plink it. it works rather well for me so i’ll explain how i’m doing it in case anyone else is having a hard time doing this consistently. be warned, you will be pressing a lot of buttons at once lol.
the way i do it: HP>qcf+HP+LK,-slight pause- MP~LP>MP hayate. i actually keep HP+HK pressed the entire combo to keep from negative edging anything by accident. only problem so far is that sometimes i get an EX hayate at the end of the combo. you can fix this by holding down LP when you plink and negative edge the mp or double tap mp.
anyways, that works for me about 80% of the time and i’ve only tried this combo for about 2 hours so my percentage will definitely go up. if there is a better way then i must have missed it because i’ve only been searching for an answer for a couple hours. what was messing me up is the slight pause you have to do between the feint and the mp.
I just remeasured Makoto’s dash and I got 17f this time rather than 16f. I dunno how I screwed up the first time, I guess I rushed too much (shared setup).
Anyway, I’ve edited my earlier posts in this thread to reflect this. Focus L1 xx Dash is -1 on block/hit, Focus L2 xx Dash is +5 on block/hit.
Also there’s something weird going on with her backdash. It seems like you can cancel into a special during the last part of it. This is really screwing with my attempts to measure its duration.
Great vids, both meaty oroshi and f.hk cross up look very promising tools, this is the kind of stuff that proves we’re a long way from knowing exactly how makoto is going to do in sf4, thanks for the vids. Btw keep those os coming
When doing backdash into another dash (forward or backward), tap focus as you recover from the first one (just as you finish inputting the second one).
Basically you cancel the end of the first backdash into focus and then immediately into another dash. It seems like with Makoto you never want to be in a situation where you backdash into nothing.
Am I the only one paying attention to Sprint here?! This shit is GODLY! It’s almost like an infinite backdash. This is going to make her dashing game very deadly, while allowing her to make slightly easier escapes! Without having to worry about the recovery frames at the end of the back dash, we can simply backdash into EX oroshi or karakusa to punish any attempts to punish our recovery. I’m too hyped about this! WHY DO Y’ALL DISCOVER STUFF WHILE I’M AT WORK!?!?!?!?!?!
