You lack discipline oh foreign knight! The Arthur Thread

[MrBGuy]

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Hit it right on the spot. People want to think that the answer to Morridoom is some low tier character who would direct counter it, but the chances of that actually happening are low. Not saying there isn’t tech out there that we haven’t found out yet, but Arthur is definitely not the answer. Saying Heavenly Slash will be useful in beating shell kick is no different than saying any DP can beat any air approach. Why not then say Ryu’s DP can beat any tridash from Magneto or Doom? If we’re reacting to air dash in’s with full dragonpunch motions, then I guess Ryu and Akuma can beat anyone in the air.

Another thing is why does Morrigan have to go in? Since Morrigan should be in the air constantly since she doesn’t have any ground movement, how is Arthur gonna hit her? j.S will only be a nuisance that’s just asking to get hit by a soulfist. If we’re talking about hitting Morrigan with a j.H (which I’ve rarely seen happen), then might as well switch Arthur with Dante or Vergil, characters whose j.H has longer range and can actually to damage reliably off that and kill. Arthur may beat her in the durability war, but Morrigan can chuck plasma a lot more faster than Arthur can, meaning Arthur will get overwhelmed eventually. And its once MorriDoom gets that momentum is when you see people buckle down to soulfist barrage. Also Morrigan can hit Arthur at angles that Arthur can’t fight back. Air L-soulfists (the down-foward one) hit Arthur right over his head, while Arthur doesn’t have a projectile nor the means of movement to fight/avoid it.

Let’s humour the discussion. Without astral vision, Arthur can go toe-to-toe with her quite comfortably, either overpowering her in the ground game, forcing her to make a risky approach, or jump up high and throw projectiles there. With astral vision, Arthur can bide for time with a double-jump, or don king’s armour in a bid to lock her down - king’s armour lasts about as long as two astral vision hypers if they’re done one after the other.

I’m sorry, but that is just ridiculous. There are only a few characters in the game who can “force” Morrigan to do anything, and if you want to put Arthur on that list, I don’t see the reasoning behind it. Making Morrigan “jump up high and throw projectiles there” is making her do something she already wants to do. With Astral Vision on, Arthur is nothing more than a sitting duck. He can’t throw projectiles on the ground or nj. height since he can’t immediately block after it, and sj. projectiles will … do nothing. It would be miraculous if you hit her with a crossbow arrow, but fortunately, she has a fireball traveling behind you to cover her. King’s armor won’t fix ^those problems of not being able to block after a projectile, and his floaty jump is just asking to get juggled by soulfists.

I’m pretty sure we are all clear of Gold Armor Arthur being a gimmick at anchor, so activating it just for an assist isn’t going to shift the momentum in your favor. How many times do you see a Morrigan hanging around on the ground? She excels in the air, and anyone knowing the durability of gold daggers would know to stick to the ground game.

[Nevflinn]

Let’s humour the discussion. Without astral vision, Arthur can go toe-to-toe with her quite comfortably, either overpowering her in the ground game, forcing her to make a risky approach, or jump up high and throw projectiles there. With astral vision, Arthur can bide for time with a double-jump, or don king’s armour in a bid to lock her down - king’s armour lasts about as long as two astral vision hypers if they’re done one after the other.

Heavenly slash is fairly useless in this match. She wins the zoning war and has no reason to rushdown. In flight she can bait the dp and punish it, and if she blocks it you have to waste a bar to keep it safe. If you do land it, you get one super if missles don’t come down and break it. Arthur jumping forward and hitting H isn’t going to accomplish anything. Even if this was a good option he is severely less mobile than morrigan and should never even be in the position to attempt this.

Oh, so now we’re no longer talking about Morrigan, but Morridoom. That wasn’t the basis I was talking about earlier, I was just about Morrigan alone. But if you want another discussion, then sure.

Consider that if Arthur is alone, then he must be in anchor spot, then he has X-Factor 3 to work with, and potentially fire dragon. He shouldn’t be dealing with Hidden Missiles because he should always have the means to take out assists unless you fall for some callous bait and blow your resources.

If Arthur is on point, he should have at least one assist to help his ground game, whether you like hadoken or disruptor or log trap or whatever, thus helping Arthur stuff the Hidden Missiles assist. The reason this is likely is because of just how much of the ground game Arthur dominates because of his projectile versatility - against Morrigan, lances beat soul fists, and since lances are much easier to throw out, it’s not unreasonable to say that the Morrigan will get tired and either try to rush down or set up astral vision if the bar is available.

Arthur doesn’t jump forward and do j.H, he jumps backwards to do it; the range is big enough for it. The idea is if Morrigan is trying to dash in to get a shell kick. Try it on other characters who like to airdash in such as Nova; so long as you don’t do it late, it works.

Arthur is less mobile, but consider how he can control space. Morrigan can only approach via airdashing, whether it’s at low level or high level; that means being harried by weapons if there’s a large gap. A smart Morrigan will throw soul fists to cover her approach, but Arthur can beat those; they’ll also unfly, but that doesn’t do anything harmful to Arthur. The only way Arthur can’t use weapons normally is if Morrigan is too close and can already get her angle - at which point I’d say that an invincible uppercut like heavenly slash, backed by a hyper made for gaining space, comes in handy.

I’m sorry, but that is just ridiculous. There are only a few characters in the game who can “force” Morrigan to do anything, and if you want to put Arthur on that list, I don’t see the reasoning behind it. Making Morrigan “jump up high and throw projectiles there” is making her do something she already wants to do. With Astral Vision on, Arthur is nothing more than a sitting duck. He can’t throw projectiles on the ground or nj. height since he can’t immediately block after it, and sj. projectiles will … do nothing. It would be miraculous if you hit her with a crossbow arrow, but fortunately, she has a fireball traveling behind you to cover her. King’s armor won’t fix ^those problems of not being able to block after a projectile, and his floaty jump is just asking to get juggled by soulfists.

I’m pretty sure we are all clear of Gold Armor Arthur being a gimmick at anchor, so activating it just for an assist isn’t going to shift the momentum in your favor. How many times do you see a Morrigan hanging around on the ground? She excels in the air, and anyone knowing the durability of gold daggers would know to stick to the ground game.

I know how you meant it, but it’s not exactly negotiable to just call someone’s suggestion ridiculous like that.

When Astral Vision’s up, Morrigan has the momentum and your chances of finding any openings are slim if any, ideally none if the opponent times everything right. But you’re looking at this the wrong way; the question shouldn’t be how does Arthur get in on Morrigan - it should be how Morrigan gets in on Arthur. Let’s say Arthur tries to be 100% defensive, avoiding as many soul fists as he can, and the Morrigan player stays full-screen chucking as many of them as they can; super-jump, then double jump to get some time. By doing that, you accumulate some chip, but not enough to keep you out of the game. It’s honestly not that bad unless the Morrigan player somehow has five whole bars of Astral Vision to plough through.

Now compare that to the level of chip Morrigan might receive from Gold Armour. Each weapon deals a lot of chip, even when pushblocked, and the power-up lasts for at least two AVs. Arthur doesn’t just break even: he gains a lead.

You can laugh at me now and throw internet banter at me if you want, but I’m not proposing Gold Armour as strictly for assist and anchor utility: I’m suggesting it has use on point. It’s still one of the strongest power-ups in the game and and I believe it lends itself to the matchup well.

[pat728]

You’re missing something very simple. Arthur lacks the ability to rush her down and prevent the setup of AV. She can setup for free on arthur and during the super all he can do is respect it and try to take as little chip as possible. Arthur can attempt his gold armor, but morrigan can just respect that as well and try to take as little chip as possible during that because when armor ends he is pretty much dead, and if he somehow survives he needs 2 bars to get back to gold. There’s no way you can chip out a character with 950k health without XF in just one gold armor activation against an opponent who is patient and just blocks/avoids.

[MrBGuy]

I know how you meant it, but it’s not exactly negotiable to just call someone’s suggestion ridiculous like that.

When Astral Vision’s up, Morrigan has the momentum and your chances of finding any openings are slim if any, ideally none if the opponent times everything right. But you’re looking at this the wrong way; the question shouldn’t be how does Arthur get in on Morrigan - it should be how Morrigan gets in on Arthur. Let’s say Arthur tries to be 100% defensive, avoiding as many soul fists as he can, and the Morrigan player stays full-screen chucking as many of them as they can; super-jump, then double jump to get some time. By doing that, you accumulate some chip, but not enough to keep you out of the game. It’s honestly not that bad unless the Morrigan player somehow has five whole bars of Astral Vision to plough through.

Now compare that to the level of chip Morrigan might receive from Gold Armour. Each weapon deals a lot of chip, even when pushblocked, and the power-up lasts for at least two AVs. Arthur doesn’t just break even: he gains a lead.

You can laugh at me now and throw internet banter at me if you want, but I’m not proposing Gold Armour as strictly for assist and anchor utility: I’m suggesting it has use on point. It’s still one of the strongest power-ups in the game and and I believe it lends itself to the matchup well.

“Not exactly negotiable”? Sorry if an adjective affected you, but this forum is for debate, so if you think I’m full of shit, tell me so and prove me wrong.

As I said before, Morrigan has no need to go in on Arthur. Her zoning with Astral Vision and sj. Fireballs fights Arthur’s zoning really well, so she doesn’t need to take that risk. Astral Vision is an immediate momentum shift in Morrigan’s favor because Arthur can’t do anything to stop her and the fireballs behind and above/below him. Arthur can be defensive all he wants, but how are you going to win like that? Or, in other words, when you start choosing to be offensive, how are you going to do that when his offensive options are limited to sj.S xx projectiles, which aren’t safe and susceptible to being juggled with soulfists. Other characters like Doom and Modok, for example, can fly on the top of the screen and keep themselves hovered with projectiles, so they are a better choice in stalling out Morrigan’s Astral Vision.

If Arthur’s level of chip in Gold Armor is good enough to compete with Morrigan’s, then we would have already seen more exposure and success with this, and this whole forum would be jumping on the Gold Armor train to maximize his Gold Armor strategy to make him viable. As of now, I don’t see it. Morrigan is better at stalling Gold Armor than Arthur is at stalling Astral Vision, because against Gold Armor, Morrigan can still operate in the air as she wants with not much risk, while any button Arthur presses leaves him vulnerable to eating multiple soulfists. Morrigan can also fly on the top of the screen, and airdash past Arthur, avoiding his crossbows that way, and chuck souldrains, which keeps her in the air longer. Another factor is what happens when the power-up supers run out? With Astral Vision over, both sides are back to square one, while Gold Armor breaking makes Arthur even less of a threat. You’re not going to chip Morrigan out with one set of Gold Armor, so are you going to spend 2 wholes meters to get it back? Or are you going to secede and tag him out? Either way, there are a lot better uses of those 2 meters than getting Arthur back his time bomb Armor, which with meter Morrigan can make that Armor explosion his death.

The Gold Armor assist/anchor thing was referring to what jijikun said, something about switching characters back and forth and spending a gratuitous amount of meter that somehow materialized from doing something.

And for the record, I’d put Arthur’s Gold Armor hyper as bottom 3 power-up hyper, along with Ryu’s and maybe Felicia’s, mostly because his is the only one that punishes itself and is only viable with XF.

[ES_Curse]

Man, you guys still playing Arthur? Props, I dropped him a few months back and haven’t looked back until now. Learned a lot about the character though.
Does anyone actually win the Arthur vs Hsien-Ko match-up? Seems to be 5-5 in favor whomever has the most meter and a more optimized team.

[pat728]

Man, you guys still playing Arthur? Props, I dropped him a few months back and haven’t looked back until now. Learned a lot about the character though.
Does anyone actually win the Arthur vs Hsien-Ko match-up? Seems to be 5-5 in favor whomever has the most meter and a more optimized team.

I actually played a match in pools at ufgt9 where it came down to just my arthur against this guy’s hsien ko. I won because gold lance goes through her gongs instead of getting reflected. As it happened everyone watching, including my opponent immediately went, “WHAT!?”. So yeah, arthur wins that matchup lol.

[Spider-Dan]

Hsien-Ko matchup is kind of like Hawkeye: hard to win naked or silver, but gold completely steamrolls them. Gold axe or lance will cut through gongs like butta.

[REALPLAYER]

imo, arthur should NOT have a dash (or an airdash or anything silly like that). he’s unique and should remain that way to keep the game interesting. however, hard knockdown on gold armor expiration is too harsh imo. maybe give him a 1-2 frame window techroll option after it. that way, with a little skill, players can earn the opportunity to make it safer, but if they mistime it, they eat the hard knockdown.
as an alternative, maybe he could gain the ability to revert back to normal armor arthur during gold armors duration.

[Rikir]

Made my long overdue Arthur combo video. Enjoy!

[Rikir]

I forgot:

Heres my original concept video for the Vergil/Arthur shell.

[Vidd]

I don’t play UMvC3 but I’m looking forward to seeing what Arthur gets next time. It’s crazy the level of punishment he gets after his upgrade super when other characters get no downsides at all.

[Oreo]

Sorry for not reading whole thread, but what’s the trick on Arthur’s air throw conversion? I’m doing: foward air throw, land, jump forward S x dagger wiff, standing light.

Ive seen it in a couple combo vids and went to the lab. But after about 40 minutes I haven’t landed it once, even in level 3 xfactor. Thanks in advance.

[pat728]

Sorry for not reading whole thread, but what’s the trick on Arthur’s air throw conversion? I’m doing: foward air throw, land, jump forward S x dagger wiff, standing light.

Ive seen it in a couple combo vids and went to the lab. But after about 40 minutes I haven’t landed it once, even in level 3 xfactor. Thanks in advance.

Superjump instead of jump as it grants you slightly more hitstun. Also it’s a pretty difficult link, do the j.S as low as you can, and do the s.L as quickly as you can after you input the dagger.

[JDog2009]

So Ive been thinking about making a team with Arthur on it. Ive been labbing Chris(Land Mine)/Sentinel(Drones)/Arthur(Daggers). What are yalls opinion on turning Arthur gold at the start of the match and then tagging in to anchor position? Is it worth the risk if things don’t go your way that you have a ticking time bomb as an anchor in exchange for an amazing horizantle assist?