Yoshi Mix Up/Reset Options i.e. Shenanigans

Classic Fighting Games Street Fighter x Tekken
1

So I’ve been playing Yoshi for a bit and I keep thinking there has to be just one thing we’re missing to make this character better. One of the things I think we’re not messing with enough is the resets and other mix ups he has. The air :b::lk: can actually cross up and can be used ambiguously with j.mk and I barely ever see that ( the spacing is very specific ). Also, the Posion Breath reset has a lot of potential. Figuring out a way to land the HK version and Tag Cancel for a bar could be a really strong method. Comboing into the EX version already spends a bar, so you’re gonna want to be using Yoshi for that reset.

Those are just some random ideas I had. I’m newer to SRK, but I’ve been around other forums (especially gaming ones >.>) enough to know how to format. If we get a good discussion going I’ll keep updating the OP with options that people come up with. So yeah, any ideas guys?

The Story so Far (3/29/12):

Thoughts from Vulcan Hades, our resident vid maker, about the EX PB set up

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Video from Lewis24 showing how the back+lk target combo can be used for cross ups

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Thoughts from The Final Lion regarding Overhead, Flea Stance, and Block Strings.

Spoiler
2

I admit I never dared burn my meter on EX Poison Breath in a real match. If I’m hit confirming, doing EX SlapUSilly or Gehosen tag cancel is just so much better and leads to way more damage. So right now EX Poison Breath resets are not part of my game but I’m hoping to change that.

j.mk, cs.mp, st.lp, st.mp xx EX Poison Breath, and from there:

-st.mk (reset) xx SCC > throw/cr.lk xx Slone Fists
-(dash) st.lk (reset) > Overhead/j.mk
-st.mk (reset) xx Windmill (delayed)
-cr.mp (reset) xx H Poison Breath
-(corner) cr.mp (reset) xx Suicide TC

3

I love those options, especially since you can tag cancel them. I just wish it wasn’t so much meter on a reset D:

4

I have some LK MK cross ups after sweep i can upload but roll beats them all.

5

Found this one with Asuka:
hk. poison breath (tag), low mk xx lk double lift kicks [srk motion + lk]
The first hit whiffs, the second hits meaty. She’s safe and can follow up with jumping hk etc etc.

Now the question is: how the hell am i supposed to hit a poison breath? :smiley:

6

Probably not very useful because of rolls and stuff but the mk is a cross up and the lk is not.
[media=youtube]BucAmIeWWdk[/media]

7

I really wish Yoshi had a counter teleport, or something…

They look good, but yeah… Rolls.

8

This is awesome. Will jump back not do the same thing to catch rols? I know in the corner we can deny rolls, but Yoshi putting you in the corner is never going to happen. We need to figure out how to force stand and do this.

9

Some thoughts about Yoshi’s Options and mix ups from my experience :

Overhead :

Use Yoshimitsu’s overhead very conservatively, it retains a regular hit box, despite looking like it does not. It loses to all lows, including cr.jabs, that have become so infamous in this game. It useful after a Jumping normal, or after a tag cancel, general guide to using the overhead is to make sure it is preceded by plenty of blockstun.

Riskier way to use it is to make use of the excellent amount of range it has. Inherit risk here is that it is way easier to react to. Being able to Cancel the OH into Slap U Silly is pretty handy, additionally OH->Slap U silly seems to be a true blockstring, which allows for a good tag cancel for your mix up character.

The third and fourth options from Yoshimitsu’s “tekken string” are both pretty useless from my experience. The roll is not invulnerable at all, quite slow, and punishable even after a successful OH -> Slap U Silly - string. The sword slash is another basically just another suicide move for Yoshimitsu, the speed and it’s crippled hit box turn you into a sitting duck.

Yoshi probably has the worst high-low mix up game of all the tekken cast. Most practical use for his string seems to be yet another way for Yoshi to provide a safe tag cancel into a mix up, which is his bread and butter in this game. Develop your game eye to see when your opponent wants to block your overhead string in fear of eating a 40% combo ( Hit confirm from the string…), and punish with throw.

**Flea Stance : **

So much potential, yet so risky to use. I try to apply this stance in my games as much as I can, some results are pretty rewarding, some are not.

Sometimes I can just jump against a jumping opponent with Flea and it beats them clean, some normals however blow me up badly. Jumping in flea stance is so weird.

Very useful against Dhalsims air pokes, but there is no real need to use it against him in this match up anyway because you can build meter pretty easily against Sim anyway and teleport under his air normals.

All the ground options are pretty worthless, the dash is horrid. The slide, while ambiguous, gets pretty predictable eventually, might go under projectiles, have not tested this though.

Jumping against grounded opponents in Flea has not really paid off for me. A good defensive tool, and neutralizing projectiles while crouching…Need to explore this stance more, It might end up being very useful.

**Handy block strings I have had some success with : **

Blockstrings in this game usually starts from Jumping. From here I go into S.Short, then maybe another S.Short and then Cr.Fierce. Close S.Strong is good, but since it is close only I usually dont include it when I’m going for a normal only blockstring. S.Jab is a move I have had mixed results with, hits from a different angle then s.short with pretty good range.

I have not made much use of Yoshimitsu’s sweep so far, I probably oughto though, seems to have good range.

S.Short is a good normal in general, good range and +3 on block ( ? ).

Cr.Fierce is usually quite safe, even from a chain blockstring because it slides Yoshimitsu away from the opponent. Some low pokes with good range might be able to punish this though, Ryu’s sweep for example, however so far it has been a safe blockstring ender for me.

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I dont think he can do the target combo off of back jumps.

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He can’t but j.mk alone is pretty ambiguous. I often get a cross-rush off it. Make sure you delay your bj.mk (jump back on reaction to them rolling).

12

Been super busy with work/school. Gonna update soon, hopefully tonight.

Vulcan, can you upload just a chunk of video showing the reset options?

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I showed it in the long video guide I made but here it is:

[media=youtube]LDJRh36hHnU[/media]

Take this with a grain of salt. I still don’t think EX Poison Breath is worth the meter considering how much guaranteed damage Windmill tag cancels can do. But maybe someone will find a better use/follow up for it than I have.

I’m currently uploading 2 new videos about stuff from the lab. :slight_smile: Will post both vids in a second…

EDIT:

Ok so here’s an idea I had to use EX Suicide as reset but it didn’t turn out as great as I was hoping it would be (I actually thought I found an unblockable but turns out it’s blockable).

[media=youtube]zZQSkjHvWIE[/media]

So yeah, they can fuzzy guard, they can interrupt with 3-4 frame reversals and they can even jump out of it. So it’s not an amazing tech. But I still think this has potential.

Maybe there’s a way to time the partner’s first low attack in a way that would make it a 50/50 or at least harder to block… Maybe with a different partner this could prove to be better. I dunno… Just throwing it out there.

On a side note, EX SlapUSilly TC and Windmill TC can also be used for reset possibilities You basically use the hitstun and pushback from Yoshimitsu’s specials to setup an ambiguous cross-up attack that will hit as the combo ends, resetting the damage scaling and potentially leading to huge damage. I didn’t post examples of those because I have specific setups with my team that I don’t want people to know about. :slight_smile:

I’ll make a new thread about the other video because it doesn’t really fit in “mixups/resets/shenanigans”.

14

I think EX PB is awesome, because I can land 700+ damage if the reset hits lol Massive risk vs reward though.

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I want to open this thread up to Tag Cancel character specific mix ups from here on out. It’s not specifically for those, but I think Yoshi’s mix up game can evolve into this for max damage.

A good example is I play Yoshi/Lili. If I land windmill, I can tag cancel into Lili and start doing things INSTEAD of combos. They’re left standing, with you at advantage. So, I can do a high/low mix up in there face, if they hit, max damage combo. If they block it, I’m in there face, let’s keep this going with pressure. I also have the ambiguous cross up situations using her normal cross ups and dive kick for all sort of things, where most of the time I don’t even know what side I’ll be on. If I hit, max damage combo, they block, I’m still in there face and get to keep playing my games.

Another one I messed with is do this into Asuka’s cross up. That thing is tricky as hell, and if it lands can go into a 432 damage combo. If we get a windmill combo that’s at least 168+ that’s 600 damage and a massive mindfuck. If they block, Asuka is in their face, exactly where Asuka shines.

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You’re right, Yoshi resets have a lot of potential. Especially if you found ways to make the reset ambiguous enough to be a 50/50.

With my team I can do 400+400 for 2 meters if the reset works and I build back like 0.7 in the process. :slight_smile: Or I can do 325+250 for 1 bar and I build back 0.5. That’s pretty godlike. Of course, the thing with resets is that it’s never guaranteed damage but like you said even if the reset fails, you’re still in their face applying pressure and mixups that could also lead into full combos or at least build back a good amount of meter. So imo it’s a win-win situation. Unless of course they alpha counter, then you lost 2 bars for barely 200-300 damage. Ouch… Still, the reward is ridiculously good for the amount of risks involved.

I really want to start implementing all those EX Resets in my game. Just to see how often I can get the resets to actually work against decent players.

17

The biggest thing I forgot to mention is that windmill is your best option for this because you can barely see your character while getting hit. Just go to training and try the Asuka cross up. It’s retarded. They can’t alpha counter the reset because you don’t put them in blockstun until the second character does something. They’d have to aplha counter the pressure from character 2, which is a whole different story. If you have a really tricky set up, good luck blocking and countering that on the first hit of the reset. After that, um, yeah. It still sucks, but it’s part of the game.

Something to watch out for is making sure you beat reversals. This is super character specific but try it out. My Lili one beats almost everything, and if I pick the right option on the right character, it’s pretty much try and block it.

I strat I was thinking of was run Yoshi point, have a 2nd character with a TC combo that leaves them standing. Do typical Yoshi stuff, and once you have 2 bars find a way to boost combo out or tag safely. Then, land theTC combo with the other character, then combo into windmill, TC, go for reset. The combo into windmill should be 300+ and plus and the combo off the reset can be 400+.

Again, this is all potential damage at the cost of a lot of meter, but we build meter well and the reward could be massive. It can result in anything from huge damage, to an ideal position, to momentum and mind games. Worst case scenario is you blow a meter or two, get countered. Against somebody who has 2 meters and a counter that can be comboed off of, watch out if they block. If they block the reset, try to not give up any space while watching that counter.

18

Because it’s pretty much impossible to combo into an HK Poison Breath but you can cancel a chain into EX PB.

Obviously, you can still get a reset off HK PB but it’s just not going to hit very often.

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So I tested my Lili reset in the wild. It makes Srks and a ton of reversals whiff, so that’s a free punish, if you time it right you can’t get jabbed out of it. The big one I got a ton of mileage out of was windmill TC, instant air EX divekick reset, Lili combo. It’s tricky as hell and nets 686 (wondering if doing optimal combos -_-) if it lands. 2 meters. If they block, you’re actually at frame advantage so start frame trapping and going hard. If you don’t EX dive kick, you get ambiguous cross up situation where if they reversal, free punish for 700+. A lot of people either whiffed something or had no idea how to block that shit. I would make a video but my cap software went awol.

Now I’ve messed with Asuka some more. I Asuka can land a combo into HK Oni TC, s.mp windmill for anywhere from 326 to 376 damage. If you TC the windmill and land the reset, that’s another 381-443 depending on which option you do. That makes min damage 707 and max damage 819 :D. Again, all potential damage, but dammit your first meter got you 350ish damage, you can spend the second one and get 502, or potentially get 700-800. If you miss, you just lost a meter but ended up ni their face with Asuka.