ST’s been played for 10 years, there’s nothing new under the sun about it. The only new variable is Akuma, and pretty much everything about him has been figured out already.
Better DP than Ken
Better fireballs than Ryu
Unblockable super
Teleport for runaway games
Better (grossly better) normals than both shotos
An air fireball that the game was never designed around
The character designer saying “whoops, yeah this is kinda busted”
This might be premature for a game only out for 5 months, but this isn’t that game.
At least that’s the argument. Waay too much teeth gnashing in this thread about EVO’s “integrity”. ST tournies were awesome without Akuma, HDR tournies will be awesome without Akuma.
crackbone i really do agree with you i’m just anticipating the whiny babbys crying for bans in their own games and using this to back themselves up. it will be annoying you have to admit.
People backing up akuma must be forgetting about his overlooked normal hitboxes (read: WRONG) and the inescapable RD setups that Sirlin admitted wasnt workin right. Good job. Did you also forget how he can completely shut down gief, hawk, fei, and [probably] honda, cammy, blanka [/probably] when theyre in the corner with the air fireball?
Probably for the best in the long run. I feel like a lot of characters were just going to have too much trouble dealing with Akuma.
He might not even be overpowered against the other best characters in the game, but I think it’s pretty clear that allowing Akuma in a tournament essentially negates about a third of the game’s cast, which I think is kinda unacceptable for the same reason the Japanese soft banned O. Sagat. Even if he’s not really too good against every character, the game is more diverse (and therefore better off) without him.
But I still want to see actual tournament results with him. I believe he’s overpowered, but not in a “holy shit this is obviously way too far above the rest of the cast to even consider allowing it” manner, in the way ST Akuma was. ST Akuma was so far gone that there really wasn’t much reasarch to be done on it. Even if Evo keeps him banned I would like to see some other tournaments not banning him so we can gather data on just how akuma being legal changes tournament play. (Unfortunately I’m suspicious that all small tournaments will ban Akuma JUST because they want to follow the Evo ruleset…)
Where are your tourney results showing that anyone who uses these characters will lose to akuma regardless of how well they play? also your making too many assumption with no proof other then some of your own testing which doesn’t hold water unless having gone through the rigors of a major tourney…like evo lol.
Keits caught a shitstorm from the smash community and his response? “prove to me that x/y/z items/stages are broken” lo and behold they didn’t and/or couldn’t and yet still banned that shit regardless…the same shit is happening here.
I would love to hear keits’s stance on this.
Chun/yun negate everybody in 3s other then ken basically so why aren’t they banned? so you mean to tell me you would rather tweak a game to your liking so you can enjoy it better rather then man up and play it as is? hmmm you are aware that this site is against banning shit for no reason…oh wait I mean was against it up until now I guess hypocrisy is futile to argue against here.
Allow akuma in evo and if he proves broken then ban him or at the very least do some kind of extensive test with top players or something.
Just because it somehow never gets mentioned in these arguments, I figured I’d remind everyone that the Raging Demon is heavily bugged. Glitches and shit have had a long history of being the key to advanced tactics in fighting games, but in SFHD the Raging Demon is quite literally broken.
Dear god this is not true. At the very least, not in the way Akuma negates someone like, say, Zangief.
Admittedly over half the cast in 3s is not really tournament viable because of the few best characters in the game, but there are still plenty of good matchups. For example, 3s chun li still has 7 matchups that are either 5-5 even or 6-4 in her favor. That is not even close to “negating everybody”.
(source: http://www.shoryuken.com/wiki/index.php/Street_Fighter_3:_3rd_Strike)
As another example, top-ranked Yun has one 5-5 matchup and five 6-4 matchups. 6-4 is certainly not negating anything. (He has some 8-2 matchups too, which is unfortunate, but at least he has a portion of decent matchups.)
Furthermore, even if you still claim that 3s is like that, I feel that would be an unfortunate flaw in 3s and not something we should support.
This isn’t about “enjoying it better.” You could tweak SF to be a side-scrolling platformer in the Mega Man 2 vein and I might actually enjoy it better. This is about the game being better overall.
Stop spewing the same shit over and over.HEHEHE PROVE IT PROVE IT. Dont skip over the part about his hitboxes on his normals NOT BEING THE RIGHT ONES and Sirlin ADMITTING the raging demon IS NOT FUNCTIONING THE WAY IT WAS SUPPOSE TO causing inescapable setups.
I didn’t skip anything, if anything other people are ignoring most of my points and cherry picking what they respond to. So what if he doesn’t function the way sirlin intended? that doesn’t automatically justify skipping to banning without putting him in a tourney environment. Not commenting on something that has been public knowledge is not ignoring it to comment on the obvious is pointless.
I was making a generalization bout 3s. Sure maybe chun does have a few even or only slightly favorable matchups but then why did 5 chuns make top8? in fact how often does anyone make top8 other then yun/chun/ken? If people are afraid of sthd devolving into akuma fest 2k9 then chun/yun should have been banned years ago but to keep them and not akuma (assuming this is the fear that lead to the reason behind ban) is simply backwards.
Okay I’m done for real lol no one respond to my rants. I know sthd is a lot more fun and balanced without him but that doesn’t justify irrationally banning him.
So once again, you ignored the fact that his hitboxes on his normals were completely overlooked, Sirlin admitted his RD is fucked up, and i also forgot that his Red fireball has invincibility on startup allowing him to avoid tick throws / 360s. Also something that isnt functioning right. Thats broken. Its not about whether hes too good (read: he is). Its the fact that as a character, he is not functioning the way he was intended and is legit broken.
zoolander you realize sirlin made many, many balance changes to characters that he then judged to be too good before HDR even saw the light of day, right? should he have held a tourney for every change of properties for every character during development of the game? how else could he POSSIBLY KNOW that X balance change was too good?!?!
this is not a situation where tourney proof is necessary. HDR is 99% a known quantity after 14+ years of experience with ST. top players have played the game a bunch and reports state many of them believe Akuma is still too good. hell, two of them even posted in this thread, and sirlin complained about capcom’s failure to patch him on his blog.
this game is a special case, because akuma does not have to be ‘broken’ in the typical sense to warrant banning. assuming HDR without akuma is better than vanilla ST, he just has to be imbalanced enough to make the game worse than vanilla ST. why? because in that case, banning him is the least stupid of the 3 options:
Ban Akuma in HDR.
Don’t ban Akuma and play an inferior version of ST when the original game is right there.
Go back to original ST WHERE AKUMA IS BANNED ANYWAY.
I know nothing of tournaments, but this also means that I can claim to have some right to feel a bit tired and underwelmed when the 5th Akuma in a row wins by doing his unblockable super, right?
I mean, I do win a tiny fraction of matches against Akuma players, even when playing Zangief, but it’s really tough. Fighting him sure doesn’t feel fair in any way.
Metaknight’s cape bug was banned aswell without testing in tournaments.
It’s kinda funny to see how many people have switched from “Tournament footage as proof or nothing happens”" to “We say he’s broken so ban him” though.
If only the designer of the newest SF2 game could make Akuma unplayable in tournaments, then we’d have our answer. Oh wait! He just did! How 'bout that.
If it makes you guys feel any better, don’t think of this as Akuma being banned in SFHD, think of him *still *being banned in ST 2.0.
If that’s not good enough for you, consider that his normals being ridiculously better than they are wasn’t an intended fact. Consider that his inescapable super setups weren’t intended. Consider that Akuma rendering at least half of the cast(or more) entirely impotent wasn’t a desired reality. Think about all that and then tell me tat Akuma shouldn’t be banned.
To further add fuel to the fire, I’m gonna go out on a limb and suggest that ST itself would’ve been more interesting if we had soft/hard banned O.Sagat. Go ahead, flame me all you want. But watch Japanese ST footage and try to argue that it’s not true.
This is an ancient game…with a few new tweaks. It’s time to get over whatever pre-conceived notions you have about finding something new in the game to beat this. Hint: You won’t. Akuma’s “too good”, pure and simple. And playing the game without him makes it more interesting. And yes, that *is *good enough reason to be done with him.
Don’t overthink this. Just enjoy the fact that SFHD will be an exciting game with a diverse line-up at EVO. To the few true Akuma players out there, you have plenty of warning. Transfer your skills over to Ryu and rock some people’s worlds.
