Bunch of 4.3 Jet stuff incoming
This character is damn scary
also, random combo vid y’all probably already know about
My two cents:
BLCH combos hurt, parry system is kind of retarded in this game (No downside to attempting parries on ground [although air parry attempts are extremely risky due to BLCH], OS’s like crazy w/ H~L strumming and strumming parry~attack), characters are kind of bland but the derpy OS parry stuff makes it rather interesting imo, the game doesn’t seem terrible though.
^ Hence the need for 3S Parries. Either that or make the Parries whiff-punishable. As-is it makes the ground game kinda’ retarded.
Outside of the licensing fee, you also have to factor in the time and money that’s needed to be spent integrating it into the system.
There are a few ways they can keep the button parries in and still penalize the player. For one, the parry window in this game feels extra small (maybe 1-2f, no more than 3f?). However, this doesn’t discourage a player from just holding down-back and mashing out failed parries w/o any repercussions.
The player could be penalized by depleting extra guard meter depending on how far off they were from making a successful parry (the bars by the H/L parry indicator actually displays this). The worse the timing on a failed parry (too early/late by a few frames), the greater the guard damage received. This IMO would REALLY discourage parry mashing and OS attempts (from me at least) especially considering the window for parry is so damn small and the likelihood of failure would be high. They could also do something like deplete meter for parry attempts (but you wouldn’t need meter to parry initially).
Another thing which should probably be looked into is being able to low parry while STAND GUARDING and vice versa. . .but. . .probably not. It’s actually kind of interesting on second thought.
Lastly…being able to buffer parries into 360 commands w/ Chada is fucking hilarious.
EDIT: hmmm just realized that this is a “campaign thread” and my posts probably don’t belong in here. Eh, I’ll leave that up to the mods to sort out.
Another anti-parry idea edit:
They could make it like GGAC slashback where you are unable to block for a few frames after attempting parry (but you can still move/attack).
I’m not a mod but I think it’s okay to discuss fixing the mechanics. Afterall, they are taking our feedback into consideration. But I’m looking at it from the perspective of how much time and money would go into fixing Parrying. And I think the simplest possible solution would be making Parries whiff punishable and obviously stop you from blocking. And I would be okay with that if the frames for Parrying were a little more lenient. Parrying feels like CVS2 P Groove shit and Parrying in that game sucked. In 3S Parries had 8 frames as opposed to 3 in CVS2 and in this game.
if you make parry whiff punishable no one’s ever gonna use it except on moves you can react to on sight. it’s the same as when every new player starts 3s, they want to parry everything and just end up walking into pokes all day. unless you are playing someone really bad or new you probably don’t know exactly what they’re going to do and when they’re going to do it.
I agree. But I’m also saying that would be the easiest solution and Parrying would be very different. The best solution would (beating a dead horse) simply do 3S parries.
@MikuruX Could you bring up the limits of the Parry system and our suggestions to fix it?
@Louiscipher If I may ask, can you go into detail so I can be sure exactly what it is I’m relaying to Seon? From my understanding, everyone is in agreement that the parry system from 3S seems more suitable for this game than what is in right now (IE: pressing a button to parry changed to whiffing forward like in 3S).
I like the button parrying personally, but being able to block and parry at the same time is bad.
@MikuruX This. Parrying being different from 3S is not an issue. But being able to block and mash parry without any risk is a big problem.
Ah, ok. I get what you’re saying now.
Just a heads up, I’ll be submitting questions on Monday so if you have any questions or concerns you’ll like me to forward, please let me know.
If people are requesting system changes, regardless of the risk to them i have no idea what exactly an air parry positively improves in any game with a somewhat traditional 2d fighting engine.
All it seems to do is lessen the importance of footsies and space control.
That might just be me being far too used to games where you want to force your opponent to jump though.
I will probably get it regardless though if it succeeds just due to GGPO and built in EYY chant.
Last time I played this game (about a year ago) it felt really bland. Game felt kinda meh till someone got in, and then they just did stupid damage. Apparently you had to mash the same buttons they were pressing to reduce the damage. Is it still like that?
This was way back though and my buddy and I didn’t really know that much about the game. The dude with the rekkas seemed to be top tier in that version.
Please no “Parries destroy footsies” argument. You guys who prefer ST and SF4 have been banging that drum for too long. We get it. You don’t like Parries. Stop bringing that shit up.
Now, myself and Zee Tee Bee have illustrated with the ground game and Parries and you didn’t seem to either read what we said or understood what we said. The problem is very simple: I can block all day on the ground and mash for Parry and have zero risk all reward. So long as I’m not in throw range I can’t get called out on it. Unlike 3S you can’t guess Parry because there is a risk and you can be called out and massive damage can be done to you as a result.
Even in Garou with it’s Just Defend system you can guess block but you still have to have the right timing to get your Just Defend and if you’re caught blocking this opens you up to have your guard broken.
I don’t think you actually read what i wrote either and just saw parry and went into your standard 3s copy paste defense.
But i don’t think this argument will do much do much good for this thread anyway so you should probably just drop it.
I understood what you wrote. Maybe you are horrible at communication and meant something entirely different in which case I would recommend that you work on how you communicate. But what you wrote in the statement above that I have quoted to prevent you from editing it and claiming I misunderstood you clearly shows that you believe Parries take away from footsies and space control. It is plain as day and there is no way to misinterpret that my friend.
So don’t give me this “Oh, you misunderstood what I said Mr. 3rd Strike player. Now I’m taking the high ground before you prove me wrong.” don’t give me that crap.
Since you don’t want to drop it let me try to explain what i see as the difference between what i wrote and what you argued against to hopefully make you move on and not derail this thread further.
My post dealt entirely with my lacking understanding of what an air parry adds to the game positively.
Regardless of how risky the mechanic itself is.
Your post defended parries as a concept by talking about the inherent risk of them in this game if changed.
Then you went on to seemingly think i am defending the no whiff parry by going into an argument about how it should be changed.
And then you finished up by defending parries again by talking about the risk of them once again in Garou.
Do you see how these two things have very little to do with each other ?
Can we drop this now ?
Again, I will quote you:
This is a negative statement. Implying that Parries take away from footsies and spacing. Clear as day. Black and white. You said that. Your statement was against Parries and I brought up that dudes like you don’t like Parries and this should not be part of the discussion and gave examples of how the current Parry system is flawed. Than you played the whole “Oh, you misunderstood me and I’m not wrong. I could easily drop the argument and walk away but I’m going to leave a snarky reply and say that I’m walking away when I clearly didn’t because I responded again.”
I’m sorry, it just really pisses me off when a guy is proven how wrong he is and pulls off some bs to get out of it. If someone points out that I’m wrong on something and it is correct I will more than cop to it. I don’t play this little “Oh you misunderstood me.” bs.
Now I’m going to drop it because you annoy the shit out of me…
So, chance of this getting on Steam Greenlight?
Steam Greenlight is a somewhat terrible system for niche games.
Could end up with them simply being stuck in greenlight limbo like Paranautical Activity.
Better to get a publisher if they want to get on Steam.
3S like parry indeed lessens the importance of spacing, positioning, gives dumb option selects and destroys several playstyles. Search for Viscant’s views on parrying, he pretty much closed this topic several years ago.
With that out of the way, the simplest ways to make parrying not dumb are to give them whiff animations or do them like slashbacks. People will still use them if they give great benefits, but the risks should be high if you are going to get big gains. Risk with 3S like parries is minimal in general if you know what you are doing, since there are tons of situations where they are zero risk, and even without OSs the punish window is much smaller than with other defensive mechanics.
As far as I recall, Akatsuki Blitzkampf had parries with whiff animations, and they were still useful because you could get nice damage out of them, but they weren’t easy as hell to option select and didn’t make projectiles/zoning in general worthless. Nothing bad with giving situational tools either, that’s much better than homogenizing the game.