Well at the risk of knowing that this board is on life support and maybe this subject has been beaten to death.
But I’m looking for match up advice specifically dealing with Yun in the air, Zoning Yun in the corner, Closing the gap between Yun, and which SA to use, 2 or 3.
Any thoughts or discussion on the matchup welcome
There’s no debate who’s has a better ground game, so Genie-Jin is important for Yun to win the match. My advice would be to just block low with the expectation of being command grabbed. It is far far better to be hit with mitigated damage than anything, since Yang takes bad damage.
If you get a knock-down while Yun is in the corner, you’re in good shape to win the match.
Yun is liable to dash back and build meter, but in turn brings him closer to a corner. You can close the gap with simply walking towards him, or jumping forward whiffing dive kicks. Jumping forward at the right distance is safe if parried.
Yang on top of Yun (without GJ active) is far more dangerous than vice-versa.
Option select dive kicks that are far away. Dive kick that are deep, parry and punish with close foward launcher. I believe you can use cr. fierce as anti-air against him like you would Dudley.
Standing fierce can reach whiffed dive kicks from far away.
In the corner, always work from the mindset of meaty close standing strong. Close standing strong is what makes people want to move (namely to parry) against Yang. It’s what really makes all the other things work well. Yun doesn’t have anything good when he’s knocked down, other than a guess parry. Close strong. Short short. Command grab/neutral throw. These are Yang’s most solid options after any knockdown where you’re on top of someone.
SA2 is a good offensive super. You can end the match mighty fast if you confirm two ex-slashes and another knock-down. You wouldn’t have the meter with SA3 to do so.
SA3 is good for keeping Yun out of GJ and forcing him to block/play defensively while you are active. This allows for more strategic, safer playstyle against Yun and Genie-Jin.
I’m kinda just spitting out tips but I promise I’ll post up more in a organized fashion… really should be writing this paper for class tomorrow. I’ve always wanted to put together detailed match-up info.
Just remember, the only thing that makes Yun better than Yang is Genie-Jin. If you take that away from him in as many ways as possible, your chances mathmatically of beating him are much greater than him beating you.
During the short time Yun doesn’t have genei jin, Yang has a far superior ground game. A yun that spams divekicks can either 1) be easily parried into launch into whatever or if you’re scared or not confident on parrying, then 2) jump back fierce the divekick once it gets close enough to you.
Jump back fierce sort of defeats the purpose of trapping Yun, because 1) you’re allowing him to build more bar and 2) you have to make up the distance while he’s building the bar. However, if his back is in the corner, then jump back fierce isn’t a bad idea because he’s being sent back there.
Whenever he gets genei jin, you always have the option of running away [if you’re not in the corner already with the twin’s far backdash, and sometimes you can get away with a backdash or two, then teleporting. However, teleport is a really shitty move, and more often than not you’ll get pulled into genei jin anyways.
At the range that only his shoulders and f+fierce will reach, that’s the spot where you’re kind of fucked, too. Yang has no real far reaching poke [at that distance] other than a slash, and it’s not difficult to parry it from that distance, not to mention if the guy is just fishing for it the whole time. Your best bet is to just walk into Yun, and scare him into getting airborne. A predictable jump or divekick is what kills the twins. Get in his head, get him scared and most likely the vast majority of players you’ll run into will jump.
In the corner, seiei enbu can be a source of massive damage against Yun. Knock him down and activate and even the standard slash combo will do at least 40%. Reset it and it does more. If you reset it with a command grab at the end, you’ve gotten 40% of your meter back, which is another ex slash. However, you risk too much in doing it, because 1) getting hit with 123 by yun is a lot of your life and 2) it’s seiei enbu. And you’re Yang. You’re the fastest meter builder in the entire game, and so you shouldn’t be overly concerned with building up another seiei enbu [unless it’s really close, and if it’s that close you wouldn’t take undue risks like walking in for a command grab anyway].
Something interesting I found - seiei enbu is the shortest bar in the entire game, but it lasts longer than genei jin by like a second or so.
I personally burn my ex when I’ve got a guaranteed change of landing it. Saving it in that situation is a bad idea, but using it randomly is even worse.
I personally like the SA3 for this match. I recently used SA2 against someone in a team tourney and I missed the knockdown into activation into yun can’t do much that seiei enbu gives. I also lost that match [damn].
Far away activations are near pointless against a far away Yang. Either activate SA3 or dash back activate, and start throwing out c.fierce. Yun’s toward+fierce can beat c.fierce clean, but cleanly loses to standing far forward [to my knowledge, I’m the only one that mixes it up], and so throwing those two moves out at certain periods means that Yun has completely wasted his genei jin - a lot of the time you’re simply trade a c.fierce hit for his divekick hit.
Even without EX slashes, Yang’s regular low forward xx slashes does noticeable damage to Yun, since Yun is juuuusssttt like Yang and takes damage like a bitch. A side effect of using regular slashes is that there’s more opportunity for that randomass slash crossup to occur. Great.
Also, if you’re going to use SA3, you might as well learn how to red parry 123. The only thing you can’t stop [and every smart player will try to do this] is either launch xx genei jin, or low forward xx genei jin. No character can do shit to that, but at least you can shut down his far away activation [sort of like chun li, but less risky if you’re slow].
Well its obvious that Yang has a better ground game, which is why most yuns i play run and build or rush from the sky and build. Yun will usually take to jumping mixups where it becomes who is going to dive and who is going to dive and who is going to jump and poke/parry. Smart yuns aren’t going to run and build like they usually do, they can’t afford to get rushed down by Yang. I see yuns trying to do a balance of offense and running, because Yang doesn’t really have an advantage in the air vs yun.
I would disagree that yang on top of yun is more dangerous than yun on top of yang. Yang doesn’t have a very solid wake up game either. Yun builds bar by being on the offense faster, if he mix ups 2 times againt yang, its genei jin. And genei jin does alot of damage to Yang.
SA3 does give the far away defense from Genei Jin as well as a serious offensive advantage in the corner. Sa2 is nice simply because you get the super art, the ex slashes are good but that assumes you can run yun down and confirm into damage where as SA3 is almost for sure damage.
One note about standing fierce is that it will touch Yuns c.mp as well as stopping dive kicks, its pretty good.
My main problem is getting the edge on yun after he builds his first genei jin. This puts yang on the defense usually no matter what -SA3 from a distance. If I don’t get a knock down before yun gets another genei jin, its pretty much in the bad for yun.
So i want to know the best ways to close the gap on Yun and ways to keep yun out of the air. Parrying is good, but yun has great air mixups just like yang and can easily parry bait once he gets in.
Yun also has EX dragon kicks which is actually a decent wake up in the corner for Yun because it will get him out of the corner.
Maybe its just japanese yuns, they are crazy as shit and damn hard to run down. I don’t win unless I can get knock downs and stop them from being in the air all the time.
I like SA3 more than SA2 though, as it can seal the match and make yangs corner game super dangerous.
On a knockdown, twins are pretty much equally in trouble in terms of command options. It’s not so much that neither of them have anything solid to get them off of one another on wake-up, but that Yang’s confirmable damage does a lot more than Yun’s would. What it really boils down to is that it is less risky for Yang to guess parry against Yun’s initial rush-down then the other way around.
For example:
Parrying low against Yun on wake-up gets beat by three important things. Yun’s standing strong (confirm standing short, jab dash punch), close forward, and command grab/neutral grab. But parrying low beats short, short and 123 and you also have some freedom to break throws. But lets say he hits you with short short dash punch because you guess parried high. It’s not as devastating as Yang hitting you with short short ex mantis, and then a Yun player will be far less reluctant to guess parry. Which results in Yun benefitting more from block on wake-up, which results in a throw break mind set, yada yada. With Yang you have more leeway to guess against Yun’s initial rush down, there’s less risk in a parry and if you get a parry against Yun, your punishment is far better than Yun’s would be in the same situation… unless he has GJ stocked of course.
Yun shouldn’t be able to activate off of 123 on your wake-up. There’s no reason to be hit by it if you are blocking or parrying. More than likely Yun should be using Genie-Jin after close forward or low forward or a mid-screen activate. In which case you should run away if you have room, activate SA3 and zone him out, or if you don’t have those options BLOCK.
On a side note, you should always asses risks (namely guess parries) according to how much life both players have. Honestly, at the beginning of the round I like to just go nuts and take lots of risks, but once I get to about 70% or so I’ll play much more solid.
Yun’s EX dragon kicks is no good against Yang really. If you step in and outside of throw range, it’ll whiff and you still get high low mind games from that range (UOH, low forward, fake palm, toward forward, walk-up throw). Yun has to be really close for it beat out Yang’s close strong, overhead mixups. It might even whiff if used against crouching short, but I dunno for sure. Also if you feel like he’s gonna throw it out while you’re in range you can just tap forward on when he gets up. If he uses it you get a parry. If he doesn’t use it, then neutral throw is your fastest option immediately after the parry, and more than likely if the Yun player is fast enough the worst that can happen is a throw break.
My money is on Yang.:woot:
You guys talking about the SA3 vs. Genei jin strategies, that only works assuming both players have the meter. Whoever hits the other guy more times is gonna get it first. So if Yun is fucking up Yang, that isn’t gonna work cuz Yun’s gonna get GJ and Yang won’t have his Seiei Enbu. If the Yun sux and there are holes, you can keep him in blockstun when you get to move. The biggest thing Yang has over Yun is the lockdown ability. Especially during GJ downtime, you should lock down Yun and preventing him from doing anything. There’s tons of ways to mix it up and keep momentum at the same time. Learn Yang’s many different blockstrings and variations. Any knockdown you get should enable you to be right back on top of Yun in no time what with teleports and superjumps. Preventing Yun from even moving already puts you in the lead. All you need is one knockdown. One of the biggest things you have to abuse is the slash ground crossup. Unless you’re positioning them into the corner, you should always try to go for it after command grabs. Another little tidbit of help, under the assumption that the Yun player is ONLY a Yun player and does not know Yang very well, you could do those Yang setups that only Yang can do since they may be disorienting. If they do know him, then nevermind. A short example would be divekick mixups off a low roundhouse. The SA3 strategy is viable with sufficient footsy skills. If Yun activates far away, you have a chance to choose the right options against his first attack, after the knockdown you can start a blockstring into EX slashes and by then the GJ is usually gone. Any one hitters or Yun blockstrings into GJ can be tough when mixed in. Usually from those he is threatening when close. The 123, you should learn to red parry. Often people switch it up by doing 12, then low forward activate GJ. The idea is that you want threaten them outside of GJ enough so that they will have to runaway to activate.