Opps, I apologise for the wrong info about Yun’s divekick. Coz I always felt Yun’s divekick seems to dash down faster den Yang’s.
My bad my bad.
No, you’re right, Yun’s dive kick does go faster than Yang’s. It’s better for a number of reasons. In addition to that, Yang’s dive kick no longer has better frame advantage on hit (only block.)
Did Yun not get extra recovery added to the end of his divekick too ? if not that’s racist or something
Pretty sure only Yang got the 2 extra landing frames.
No, both characters got 2f recovery added. But Yun had 2f added to hit/block to compensate while Yang didn’t.
So what exactly does that mean in-game? They both got it but only Yang ‘feels’ it? Because I swear when I play Yun when I hit the ground after a dive I am mobile faster than with Yang, may just be in my head though…
((Although I have gotten more used to Yang now and his divekicks seem pretty good if you use them appropriately.))
No, it means that Yang’s is slower by 2 frames in all situations, where Yun’s is only slower by 2 frames on whiff. Yang’s was considerably better than Yun’s in terms of frames in AE though, so it’s still reasonably useful.
It feels like you’re able to move faster with Yun because Yang’s dive kicks descend slower. Probably safe to assume that’s why Yang’s dive kick frames were better initially.
Also, I don’t think Yang’s dive kick is harder to cross up than Yun’s is, at least in terms of hit boxes. It’s generally just harder for Yang because he doesn’t end up as close as Yun does on a DP and his dive kick travels slower. His hurt box might be a little larger than Yun’s though (not sure.) Yun basically requires character specific set ups for cross ups too, unless he wants to risk reversals…
Yun has a better setup for lk divekick den Yang.
Could someone give me a quick comparison between Yang and Guy ? Guy has been my main since super, but upon returning to the scene (took a break to finish my masters during AE), I still gel with Guy a lot and playing him feels really natural and everything is good…but feels a little stale right now. Maybe I just need to get back into it more, but Ive been looking at Yang for a little while and Im curious if yall could make any comparisons / contrasts between Yang and Guy. I know most people dropped Yang for 2012, so I havent really seen a lot of what he can do / what he should be aiming for during a match. Im honestly not quite sure how I should be using him since it seems like his crossups are relatively strict and / or unsafe (crossup divekick…having some trouble comboing after it.)
What kind of play style is Yang, what notable normals does he have, what does he excel at, what are his disadvantages, how is he similar or different from Guy?. I would really appreciate any response, but I know this might be a difficult question to answer lol
anyways, thanks yall.
also, are any of his TC’s worth anything ?
Hi ! I also main Guy during the Super period and switched to Yang after AE is released.
In my opinion, Guy depends alot on baiting your opponent as he can just break his jump with the elbow which you can use it to bait your opponent into doing Anti-Air. Guy has a nice poke in his standing mk and his combos are actually quite damaging. A simple 4 hit combo of Jump HK -> Crouch HP - Standing MP -> Slide can easily fetch you a 300 damage. Lp Hozanto is also safe on block except against grapplers so you can just do it even if the opponent is blocking it.
But Guy has a poor wakeup game as his only reliable reversal is EX-Hurricane Kick which cannot be FADC makes it a very high risk thing to do if your opponent is gonna bait you to do a reversal.
For Yang, he relies more on resets and FADC to deal more damage to his opponent as his standard B&B combos I think can only fetch you a max of 200plus damage. But he has an excellent poke in his standing lp and can be combo into cr.mk and mantis slash.
Yang has a better overall game as he has a divekick, an Anti-air that can be FADCed, a Command grab that you can combo into and both Ultra Combos which can be easily combo into.
The bad thing about Yang is you can to do alot of combos to be able to deal a reasonable amount of damage and he has slightly lower health and stun.
I’m certain I can’t answer your main question to any satisfaction, having not played Guy in any serious capacity, but I can probably help with some of your other ones.
Yang is mostly built upon safe pressure and corner carry. His main combo pushes the opponent very far away and does fairly pitiful damage, but he has a good set of tools to land it often and to get back in when he pushes himself out. Once his opponent is in the corner, he can keep them there with a very difficult to beat uppercut, jabs with boatloads of frame advantage and a very fast walk speed. The corner also makes his damage considerably better and allows him more leverage out of his relatively stubby cr.mk. He also has an FADCable uppercut, invincible teleport and a fairly solid backdash when knocked down with meter, making him somewhat harder to simply get in and run a train on than most of the cast. His disadvantages are his piddling damage, especially in punish situations, his lack of strong mixups off of knockdowns and his reliance on a -2 move for pressure. Grapplers destroy him. Gief is especially bad (top 5 worst matches in the game I’d say, somewhere behind Blanka-Hawk and Guile-Dic) because Yang’s long range pokes are relatively poor. He also suffers against most of the other rushdown characters that outdamage him, but I don’t think he’s any worse than Guy in that regard.
His main normals of note are his s.lp, cr.lk and cr.mk outside of combos.
S.lp is +4/+8 and combos into pretty much everything as well as setting up frame traps;
Cr.lk gives him a 3f crouch tech that also combos;
Cr.mk is his longest range cancellable normal and also a low.
S.lk is fairly weak now, but is still a serviceable footsie tool in certain matchups. Or so I have been told.
His sweep is pretty average and he can combo into it, though any worthwhile setups off of that have not been brought to light.
S.mk has a surprisingly good vertical hitbox and should be used as an anti-air when you’re not sure that dp will reach or sometimes as a poke.
S.hk generally sees the most use against gief and hawk, though it’s basically a question of using the tools on hand. God help you if you whiff.
S.hp is basically just a lower risk s.hk.
Cl.mp is typically used to frame trap, but otherwise offers many of the advantages of s.lp in addition to hitting the short characters and doing more damage.
Cl.fp is only used in punish situations.
Cr.mp is used exclusively by Poongko, possibly as some sort of cosmic mindfuck. It does have a pretty good hitbox though.
As for his target combos, the punch one was never actually considered that good for Yang (he wrecks focus-happy players with buffered rekkas anyway and his super doesn’t juggle off of it like some people) but now it’s pretty much entirely useless. The kicks are something that ROM experimented with to some extent right after the release of 2012; they allow for some safe setups where you’re right in the opponents face, but are otherwise inferior to his regular combos (they do allow for jump cancel shenanigans if you’re bored though). The jump tc is actually fine. It has trouble hitting short crouching opponents, but is good for blowing up focus attacks, doesn’t tend to sacrifice much damage compared to j. hp and can be used to OS mk or EX roll, though I’m not entirely sure what that beats.
Happy divekicking.
One thing I’m curious about is the potential of the hp rekka 2x xx FA into crumple reset that I discovered (at least I think I found it…I haven’t seen anything else on it). The third round of this match I had demonstrates it (skip to 1:26);
[media=youtube]OQjth083Qyw[/media]
It seems like it has some potential. It can be very ambiguous, I believe you’re safe afterwards (got reversal DP’d once and it displayed a counter hit, I’ll have to double check though) and you can pick which side you land on (I’m looking into ways to make it consistently ambiguous no matter which side you end up on…cr.mk xx teleport seems good but some characters you won’t actually pass under them even if you’re standing right next to them, though cr.lk xx teleport you’ll always end up behind them). Or does this seem too “gimmicky?”
Hmm that’s a tricky reset, never thought about doing that.
I do use a reset similar to it though. rekka FADC cl.mk, fj mk divekick, cr.mk/cl.hp xx teleport. The cl.hp will always leave you behind your opponent and the cr.mk always leaves you in front of him. I use cl.hp instead of the cr.lk because using this setup it’s alot easier to time, it does more damage + stun and the cr.lk doesn’t make it look more ambigous imo. You can also go into command grab if you want.
@ Ides, thank you once again for a stellar post. I really appreciate it.
Is it safe to combo into Yangs command dash ? are there any real applications for this outside of a reset ?
There is a midscreen super combo which is just cl.hp xx teleport. And you can use it to create setups. And Ex teleport is a get out of jail free card (until your opponent realizes he can grab you out of it). And maybe online you can cancel cl.hp into it for mixups, but yea… online.
Ok guys, I almost finished making a guide (sort of) for Yang’s setups/mixups/tricks (that I use).
Should I make a new thread for it? Because atm there is no thread that lists his setups. It would make it alot more accesible for the new players.
And maybe you guys can then add/test things I’ve listed.
Hmm…maybe if you space the cl.hp on the FADC reset you could pick which side you want to land on? Since the crumple allows you plenty of time to space yourself correctly. In testing, at least against Ryu, if you did cr.mk right next to the opponent after the crumple, you’d end up behind the opponent. If you went even slightly backwards, you’d end up in front. It’s those sort of ambiguous set-ups that I’m looking for, since if you use two different moves for two different positions the opponent might catch on…
adding to what ideasofmarch said about Yang, his TC3 is his only really decent target combo in that he can hitconfirm into in the corner for decent damage in the corner or go for a reset however there are better mixup options to go for other TC3 also Yang may have a fadc’ble DP however its -4 on block so you will get punished if you dash foward although this isn’t common knowledge against most players, if they do know your fadc is unsafe you may aswell input a DP and hope they mess up their timing, its best to fadc back with his dp to be safe however some characters like Vega can punish regardless if you fadc foward or back.
I reccomend this video to every new Yang its from AE2011 however most of the stuff still works, watch and experiment.
[media=youtube]hxPHmYGU36M[/media]
It is better to use cr lk as it looks similar to cr mk and its harder to see in a match and most likely to work, against a player who has a brain and see’s you use cl hp xx teleport the first time they will know how to block it, using st hp makes the mixup is too telegraphed, its a one time gimick, the best mixups players should be using are the ones wheres the mixup looks the same when you crossup or not like the standard air reset with jhp after launcher.
I know, that’s what I was trying to say with I don’t find it more ambigous. cr.lk doesn’t look similar to cr.mk if you ask me and that’s why I’d rather go with st.hp to get the damage. But the setup is a gimmick anyways I was well aware of that. I use it once and then use it to force reversals.
That could be really useful. You might be on to something.