Yang Everything

Classic Fighting Games Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike
841

I don’t see the benefit of SA1 against makoto. You’re basically suggesting a random super [by no means am I against random supers, everyone and I mean EVERYONE [[valle included hee hee]] has been hit by a random wakeup or whatever super by me at least once or twice], but you’re limiting your ex slashes to reserve that super as a panic button if she’s got you in a mixup.

The problem I see with that is that you only have 1 stock of sa1. That means if you’ve burned even one ex slash you no longer have the option of that super, which means you’re STILL stuck guessing [and that random super is guessing too]. You might as well have SA2 for the threat of random super, as well as the option of a normal in ex slash [though you may get reversed].

SA2 isn’t safe, but it’s much, much faster than SA1 in terms of startup. There’s a bigger chance of makoto throwing out a jab or short early and being able to block SA1, than there is of her doing the same thing and blocking SA2.

To be honest, even with SA1 being his most damaging super, it doesn’t do -that- much, certainally not enough to warrant hoarding all your bar for a random super that, if blocked, leaves you with one less option of getting out of makoto’s mixup game if the super fails [i.e. no c.jab/short xx ex].

But who cares I decided to copy Roshi and play SA3 on mak, and I found myself liking it. :]

842

It’s not reserved for panic or meant to be random. I know random and making choices may seem to go hand in hand in third strike, but this is not totally true. The thing for me is: Yang has no offensive answer (i.e. a dragon) to Makoto’s rush down, so she is free to go about with whatever she wants to do. You guess a command grab from her and try to jump on wake-up? She hits you with standing short > hayate and BOOM, you’re on the ropes with no option on wake-up.

SA1 gives Yang the option of a ‘safe’ offensive wake-up against Makoto, thus making her less likely to go nuts. And you don’t necessarily have to use the super to pose the threat of having it. When you have it stocked, Makoto player has to play cautiously.

You don’t have to hold the bar, if you get a knockdown then by all means I think you should play for the close strong (confirm standing short ex slash), short x2, command grab/neutral grab and overhead-standing/crouching short > hit confirmed ex-slashes. BUT if you lose the encounter and you’re on the floor against SA1 stocked Makoto, you’re in really bad shape. But if you still have SA1 stocked, you still have the ‘safe’ option of getting out.

Now I know it’s not likely at all for Yang and Makoto to not go back and forth between knockdowns therefore making it less likely to have the super stocked if you’re using EX-slashes. But the beauty of this match-up is that meter builds fast. If you land a command grab, close forward launch into the mind game, and you win the mind game, you have a ton of meter – over half depending on the decision you make. Even though you have to play this match agressively, you will most always have meter to back you up and quite often I find myself having SA1 stocked and still using ex-slashes in the same round.

In comparison to SA2, SA1 is not as readily available and yes, if you use any form of meter you take away that option of having it stocked, momentarily. But if you are using meter off of ex-slashes then you no longer need a super because you are now at the offensive advantage.

The Makoto I play against nowadays likes to turtle initially and build meter specifically to play off the super. It’s a real pain in the ass. :sweat: Whenever I lose to him, 9/10 times it’s because I got hit by SA1.

Cliff notes version: It’s not about guessing the super so much as to having the option of being safe by having the super. You caaaan throw the super and be safe if blocked.

843

Whether or not the wakeup super is safe is almost irrelevant to a Makoto that’s playing her mixup game. The threat of having a wakeup super is there with both SA1 and SA2, the only difference is the post-super result - something that doesn’t matter until it happens.

A wakeup super is a wakeup super. A makoto that understands the threat of a wakeup super will only think about getting HIT by it, and thus will play cautiously in order not to get hit. In those terms, random SA1 super = SA2 super.

The only difference is whether or not the makoto blocked either super, in which case SA1 > SA2.

Parry? SA2 ~> SA1, due to the fact that it’s multiple parries and most players have a tendency to simply option a parry then throw, or normal which loses to multiple hits, generally from a super.

Jump? SA1 = SA2.

Simply put, a makoto won’t give a damn whether or not the super is safe when it comes to ‘he has the option of wakeup super, will he do it?’. It’s only, ‘will he wakeup super?’

Also, using meter for ex slashes does not technically note that you have an offensive advantage. The only time that would denote such a thing is if the ex slashes are hitting, really. Blocked ex slashes are relatively neutral unless you decide to never go past the first ex slash, but then again still have the danger of being reversed.

I would rather have the threat of wakeup super much more often with SA2, simply due to the fact that you have a ton of ex to work with at all times. Meter building becomes moot when you’re on the defensive, which is what you propose SA1 for, and which is why SA1 would fail in that regard as soon as you burn an EX. Yang is the best meter builder in the game, but he can’t build that meter instantaneously - he needs to be on the offensive.

844

I very much so agree, Yang is an aggressive character by all means – which is why I would suggest using SA1 against a high level Makoto. Yang has no defense! Godanzuki wins matches. SA1 helps fight against Godanzuki. If you guess wrong with SA2 on wake-up, good luck.

More accurately put, the threat of SA1 being safe on block may cause a Makoto player to play cautiously, increasing Yang’s defensive potential.

Ideally, you need to be on offensive with Yang and this is where the meter space of SA2 would be more viable. But constant offensive advantage almost never happens in this match. Makoto IS a guessing character, and more than likely will knock you down or gain advantage in some respect.

The Makoto doesn’t have to worry so much about the super being safe or not – the point of it being safe is for Yang to worry about. If she blocks it, then things are back to normal and Yang is in much better position than before. If she gets hit by it then well… you did some decent damage and you have gained the offensive advantage.

The same cannot be applied with SA2. If she blocks it then you lose A LOT and if you aren’t killed by getting punished, you are in really bad shape unless you have another super stocked. If she’s hit by it (and on a side note, you can be command grabbed out of it if spaced correctly), same result as SA1 with a little less damage.

This is all in the event that you opt to throw the super. There are ways to getting around Makoto and minimizing the damage you take if you are put on the defensive but in general the risk of Makoto guessing correctly trumps Yang’s defensive options intensively. That’s why I like SA1 in this match-up.

My point is that you need some defensive form of safety to gain more control this match.

845

You’re way overestimating the benefits SA1 gives you.

The threat of SA1 being safe on block doesn’t mean anything.

A makoto player isn’t going to go, oh man, he’s got a completely safe super [which isn’t true, it’s just safe on block, anyone who knows will simply jump to bait it]. The other player is going to go ‘he’s got the possibility of a random super’. It can and will be baited out just like SA2, the only change is that he can’t bait it out by blocking, but he can just EX tsurugi and then you’re just as dead as if you randomed with SA2.

SA1 doesn’t even put him in any much of a better position than before the mixup. At best it’s neutral, which is a tiny, tiny advantage that isn’t worth sacrificing multiple ex slashes for. I guess if you’re hoping the Makoto player is completely disoriented at having their mixup stopped that they just straight up are unable to block, then that’s fine.

You’re saying SA1 helps against Makoto’s SA1. That’s flawed thinking - SA1 does nothing in any such way to counteract Makoto’s SA1. It’s exactly the same threat of random super that SA2 provides. The threat of random SA2 can be defeated by blocking. An experienced makoto will understand that you can simply jump over both random supers, but SA2’s startup can and will catch any last minute ‘I’ll jump’ choices much better than SA1, and that blocking is generally the safest option against SA2. If I get makoto to hesitate and block during her own mixup, that’s even better. Someone that knows how SA1 works will jump over it and kill you on the way down.

SA1 is an inferior super. It doesn’t do that much damage even in a non-scaling combo. It’s safe on block which means you can throw it out on wakeup if you feel the other guy isn’t paying attention [but that’s just guessing anyways]. If Makoto jumps straight up, it’s just the same result as a blocked or whiffed SA2 [and I’ve experienced a ton of instances where the makoto mistimes a punish and I’m fine anyways with an whiffed SA2]. There’s only one stock, and burning any part of it negates any ‘defense’ that it provides. You use an ex and then suddenly get rushed down, your SA1 irrelevant.

846

Just to clarify I’m attacking the idea of SA1, not the one who suggested it. It’s just nice to see some discussion in here, it’s usually pretty quiet.

847

I hate to ask this question, but I can’t figure it out…

I can’t do Yang’s sa3 combo anymore. And it’s bugging me pretty bad. The main one I’ve been using is fierce slash, jab slash, c. lk, fierce slash, jab slash, c. lk…etc etc. I know this works since I’ve done it pretty consistently before. Here’s what happens:

After doing the first round (fierce slash, jab slash, c. lk), I CANNOT connect another fierce slash. From what I can tell, I’m too far from the opponent to have a second c. lk (from one of Yang’s shadows) to hit to keep the opponent in stun so that my fierce slash can hit.

I know my timing’s wrong somewhere, but any suggestions where?

848

by c. lk do you mean crouching short? i think only standing short works on everyone.

fierce slash xx jab slash, st. short (xn), right?

849

Yeah yeah, it’s nothin personal at all. I just can’t think of any other way at this time to clarify or make my points more clear. I’ll get back sooner or later, just busy with school work and such :wink:. Not to mention just got back from C3.

850

Couple reasons why it doesn’t work

  • Midscreen against characters it doesn’t work midscreen on. Standing shotos, standing urien I think, etc.

  • too slow. You have to cancel the short into slashes, maybe you’re lagging a little?

  • Easier version is to replace c.short with s.short i.e. fierce slash xx jab slash xx s.short x N

First reason may be it.

851

:sad::sad::sad::amazed::sweat::amazed:

3 fucking times im still sad.

852

4 times! :lovin:

853

Thanks, guys. Now that you guy described it like that, then the reason is because I’m practicing on Ken midscreen. I knew I could do the combo in the corner, but it was midscreen that I couldn’t do. I haven’t checked to see if I could do that sa3 combo on Chun midscreen yet (my DC is unplugged right now and I’ve been a little busy recently), but I’m pretty sure I can still do it.

I guess I’ll just have to use jab slashes x N on everybody just to make it easier on me.

854

Well I’ve yet to see another yang talk about this so I’ll start. Anyone purposely whiff the last ex-slash?

I noticed when I slow the slashes down you can barely delay the last slash which will go through them, 99% of the time I would think your opponent is blocking low while getting hit by ex-slashes, this happens so fast that noone notices it in time and I get a free zenpuu-tenshin for another combo.

I use this if im hitting them away from the corner and I want to them back in the corner or if I want to ensure a stun without having to go through a wake-up game.

855

Allright, I might not exactly be providing breaking news, but console Yang is jacked up. :annoy: I haven’t really played any Yang until recently, and he’s kind of fun to use actually. I’ll go through some of the Yang threads including this one, but I was just hopin to get some quick help. I haven’t really had a lot of time for games lately with my new job. :sweat:

On my emu, I don’t really have any probs connecting Yang’s slashes, but for some reason, when I was practicing on console yesterday, I couldn’t even get c. foward, plus 3 slashes. Not even 3 jab slashes. :wtf: It kept coming up on the screen 2-hit combo after the first slash. I don’t understand it. But it was like that for a lot of different slash combinations on console.

The other thing I’ve never really known is what slashes can connect with what? For example, can I do 2 jab slashes, then a fierce? 1 jab, 2 fierces? 1 jab, 2 strongs? How does it work? Or should I just stick to 2 or 3 main ones? Thx.

856

You can do whatever combination you want. If low forward into slashes isn’t connecting, you’re just… somehow not doing it correctly.

Edit: I think it was mentioned somewhere - first jab slash has the least range of the three, but is safe-ish to the vast majority of punishers. It also does the least damage. Fierce has the most range, but is pretty vulnerable on block, and does the most damage. Strong? I don’t really care about it because it’s just the middle ground that is overshadowed by the other two. To be safe, low forward jab slash, then the last two switched to fierce for a bit more damage. If you have a guaranteed punish with a low forward, then do all fierce slashes.

857

…or just do whatver slash on block and get red parried and die :badboy: :badboy: :badboy:

858

This user knows what he is talking about. High level players will red parry the 4th hit of EX Mantis Slash if you continue slashing after it is blocked.

859

Got my Yang to top 8 at SB3. :lovin:

Wong put me in losers. Lost to Eric Kim’s Makoto in losers. I won the first match against him clean, so I switched from SA1 to SA2. Second match he got a knock down and I threw the super on wake-up. Got command grabbed out of it. Things started going his way after that. Was a damn good match and I regret not switching back to SA1 in the third match.

860

Congrats, man. :slight_smile: