X-23 UMVC3 Changes

Classic Fighting Games Ultimate Marvel VS Capcom 3
1

Figured since some threads are doing this I might as well throw this in also.

NEW! DevilJin’s 25 MINUTE SUPER SIZED X-23 UMVC3 Evaluation ( video will be updated with annotations soon).

[media=youtube]aXSr4vI33Y8[/media]

4 MINUTES 20 SECONDS IN.
[media=youtube]2Pl7Qry1vuM[/media]

There’s supposedly a master list on neogaf of all the current changes.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=31428644#post31428644 (scroll down about half way)

X-23’s changes are listed as the following (sure quite a few have already heard these)

X-23

+ OTG slash seems to have a slightly larger window, making OTG + assists easier (doesn’t seem that way after testing).

[S]+ X-23 Weapon X Prime hyper has faster start up enough so that X-23 can do solo OTG into Weapon X Prime. Rage Trigger hyper also appears to have better start up[/S]

+ X-23 can now cancel out of her Crescent Scythe attack into has Talon Attacks

+ Rage Trigger hyper can be mashed for more damage/hits

• Crescent Scythe now floats the opponent higher on hit (most likely actually means larger hit box).

• Crescent Scythe’s untechable time on hit has been decreased.

• Rage Trigger’s horizontal knockback has been increased.

The buffs are interesting for sure and seeing X-23 is reliant on close ranged, assist + execution heavy pressure outside of her level 3 death trap super I couldn’t see her getting any nerfs especially with DHC glitch removal.

  • OTG slash having a larger window I guess means her charged ankle slice now keeps them in the air longer or does something with the hit stun so assists pop ups are easier to land. I have the jam session + charged ankle weapon X set up down pretty good as is and that’s considering your timing has to be pretty tight with it. For people who had trouble with those set ups it should help tho.

[S]+ Weapon X Prime having faster start up is pretty cool. I’ll have to see the damage difference between that and mashed rage trigger to see what will be better overall for ending combos. With DHC glitch gone it may not be as necessary to end combos with Weapon X Prime since Rage Trigger gives you air reset for mix up any way. It may only be necessary if you have a DHC follow up that shoots horizontally to maximize damage. With my team though Doom’s sphere flame lands right next to the opponent and since it shoots upwards gives full hits and sets up reset or XF death situation following both RT and WXP well.[/S]

Rage Trigger having faster start up is pretty cool also. The super technically had about 15 frame start up but its invincible for 19 frames during the start up (which means once the super actually starts it runs out a few frames after). Having faster start up will mean there will be more frames once its active where it’s still invincible which helps. Gives more reason to set up XF combos or block mix ups shenanigans afterwards.

  • We’ve already been talking a lot about the CS to TA buffs. People have reported that comboing off CS to TA and getting full combos is mostly impossible but I like the change as far making CS more useful. CS is a decent poking/anti air tool since it’s 5 frame start up and has a huge hit box but you can’t block during the recovery until you land and you must do an airborne/TK’d version to negate the 10 frames of ground recovery. Now it will be at least a solid anti air/poking tool to give X-23 some space.

  • I love old school mashing on buttons for more hits from playing old fighting games and I hated how SFIV and Vanilla MVC3 removed all of that outside of dizzies. If rage trigger mashed ends up doing the same damage as Weapon X Prime then there may not be as much reason to use Weapon X for combos outside of specific DHC’s since RT gives nice reset opportunities especially in corner.

Overall the buffs don’t do anything to really change up her reliance on assists to complete her special moves, her reliance on MFC’s to to make her ground normals scary or her reliance on assists and XF to make her a death sentence on incoming characters…but they definitely help maximize her game a bit. Faster start up on Weapon X Prime seems really interesting since the super has rather complicated frames on it. Looking at the frame data…

[media=youtube]xv2i-I1sO1I[/media]

Weapon X Prime has about 25 frames of actual start up before the game freezes and X-23 starts running at the opponent. This isn’t a big deal though since the invincibility for the super kicks in long before the game freezes and X-23 starts moving forward. She becomes invincible on the 6th frame after you put in the motion before the game freezes. Which is probably how comes I noticed that certain super that have 30 plus frames of invincibility like View Joe’s mach speed can still somehow beat it even though it has 60 frames of invincibility. The extra start up decrease should make it more useful for blowing through zone and doing a safe DHC or turning on XF1/2 to set up offense afterwards if blocked.

2

I read something about the Weapon X Prime change, and I find it kinda of interesting. A little more damage to sacrifice a mixup, it seems. It’ll be nice to do it if necessary though… but at the same time, if you can mash Rage Trigger, you might get more damage from that now too.

Wish someone can confirm that her speed was somewhat increased in other areas, I was told by a rep at EVO this was the intention, but nobody seems to have noticed yet.

3

Faster startup on a 6 frame startup super? Yes please lol.

Rage trigger speedup I don’t particularly care about because it was invincible anyway. Still it might be able to win more DHC wars now.

“OTG slash has a larger window” sounds more like Ankle Slice charge time got sped up. The only other possibility is that OTG windows are even larger in Ultimate in general.

4

yea every time i try to beat a beam super like ryu’s i try to do weapon x prime but it starts up slow and gets beat. even though it has ridiculous invincibility after it starts up. hopefully her talon lops can still be done. i usually do two than launch

5

If you’re talking about Weapon X Prime…technically the super has about 25 frame start up. What makes it crazy as a level 1 super though is that like you said…on the 6th frame before the super even activates nobody can touch you anymore. Then for at least another 30 or so frames while you’re running forward the opponent still can’t hit you.

Definitely agree about the rage trigger. It has a huge hit box and invincible on frame one so its more or less a DP super.

Maybe that’s the case with the OTG ankle slice…we’ll see.

You shouldn’t really be getting beat because it’s “too slow”. Weapon X Prime technically is 25 frame start up but the invincibility starts up on the 6th frame before the start up of the super. Which mean in the time your s.M becomes active you become invincible to everything. Which means nobody can touch you with anything long before the game freezes and you start running forward.

The problem you’re having with Ryu is that Ryu’s beam starts up on the very first frame after he freezes the screen. The super technically has 20 frames of start up but the 20 frames are before the game freezes and can only really be seen by a white flash that appears behind ryu before the game freezes. Your best bet is just to throw the super out early before he goes for the super and then safe DHC or turn on XF and start tearing him up.

6

never knew rage trigger was invincible on start up. that’s good to know

7

Yeah, X-23 has some of the best invincibility on her supers in the game. Rage trigger is great for blowing through any quick attacks, WXP is great for slower projectiles and supers.

Isn’t rage trigger 1-20 in terms of invincibility? And WXP is something ridiculous like 25-85 are invulnerable. I honestly forget the specifics but it’s something around that.

8

The end of the red description gives the invincible frames for both level 1 supers and her level 3. Even her level 3 has big invince frames.

9

I guess this means Rage Trigger will lose half its usefulness. Or will it do more damage than WXP if mashed?

10

YES! OTG WEAPON X PRIME…FTW!!! I wasnt gon drop her for anything tho as long as she still got MFC’s im GOOD!

11

That’s what I’m waiting to find out. Rage Trigger activates faster than Weapon X Prime and can be XF cancelled after it hits into death combos or after block into more pressure. It has a lot of applications overall that will stay useful in Ultimate. Weapon X will be better for desperation screen clearance into DHC/safeDHC/XFC but rage trigger is generally better to use once you’re actually close to the opponent.

12

Rage trigger is needed for Happy Birthdays, as well. Also, chip damage - everyone needs it sometimes.

I just realized in ultimate, we’ll be able to xfc the last hit of Rage Trigger in the air instead of cutting it short - it’ll be something to play with for sure…

13

Liking the changes. Hoping her ankle slice is easier to use with assists. Don’t want to rely on certain characters just because of a good OTG assist.

14

Any reports on the CS hit trajectory changing? Like remura said on the other thread, CS only comboes into H Talon Attack. However, in vanilla MvC3, the height difference is pretty small (and the horizontal pushback isn’t that much either). I can see the other two specials whiffing, but I can see them connecting if X-23 is already slightly above the opponent. I guess that means that if you do an aerial CS at their head height it might work, but it would also mean that if we control de height difference during air combos, CS and TA might also connect. This is all in theory of course, has it been tested?
Anyway, even in the case that it works, whatever little gains she gets from connecting these mid-combos is completely irrelevant considering her other buffs.

15

Doesn’t weapon X prime do more damage though?

Also I hope that Neck Slicer still causes a hard knockdown on Air borne opponents or that’s gonna ruin my big combo ability. I do a full mirage feint combo that brings them to the corner. I OTG with ankle slick, call ammy cold star assist. that holds them long enough for me to charge a neck slice. The neck slice causes hard knock and i charge another anckle slick in to rage trigger does tons of damage

16

Since I heard she cancel from her CS i was practicing it to she where it leaves her. After a full combo and i finished with a H CS it leaves her just above their heads. I don’t see any problem connecting to L Talon unless homeboy is right and can only connect to H Talon

17

As of right now Weapon X Prime does more damage but mashable rage trigger might change the difference a bit. Unless the damage difference is still far off from Weapon X. Right now the difference in damage is only like 30-35k between both supers as it is.

18

The weird part is that light a TK’d light CS combos into standing light in Vanilla (though that’s fairly useless because of how strict the conditions are), so I have to think that L talon dive would be able to connect as long as you aren’t hitting with like the VERY TOP of CS.

Oh well, something to look into in a little more depth the next time someone plays X23 in ultimate

19

The info that we have came from Jintor, who had a development copy of a not-that-recent build of Ultimate (didn’t have Nova or Vergil). He gave a lot of info about a lot of characters, which was awesome, but it was pretty apparent that he didn’t really play the game much, and wasn’t able to do anything that was even sort of tricky to check. Probably all he did was ground CS into Talon; of those, only H Talon connects. Doing it in combos or against characters with big hitboxes may change what’s possible.

20

wait hold up a mashable RT? Interesting, didn’t know about that one.