This is because they always make his Glove move complete ass. It has no momentum and absorbs single hit fireballs. Make his glove closer to the EX version in SFIV and he is fixed.
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He also had a beam in the SF4 movie. I don’t think it would be that big of a stretch for Ryu to be able to shoot a beam.
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He also had a beam in the SF4 movie. I don’t think it would be that big of a stretch for Ryu to be able to shoot a beam.
I’m not sure if you read the rest of the thread, but you are aware people in MVC2 CAN FLY, right?
The buff gief need, Which he is never going to get is speed. If you are going to put a character that has not other means of damage than close range physical damage you have to give him some type of way to cover ground quickly, even marvels big slow non projectile having character were designed this way.
Gief has an armor stated where he loses the ability to block
Colossus has a run, armor that still allows him to block, and an air super that is very quick.
Juggernaut has crazy reach and a headcrush.
there are full screen supers in mvc2 that you can block on the other side of the screen and still punish with Juggernaut and colossus, but with gief you’re just SOL.
His grab super also leaves him with no good DHC options.
Exactly
Likewise it is not a stretch to give Chun the air maneuverability she has in the VS games. She is one of the characters that has always had a superior advantage in the air to the majority of the cast. Dhalsim is shown flying (or at least hovering) in the SF games and his flight and 8 way dash makes sense, Bison clearly can fly…his specials have mainly been small-scale game equivalent to flying (Stomp, Demon Reverse, Psycho Crusher, in the Alpha games even his standing animation is him floating), Chun Li has always had advantages in the air over everyone else. The addition of double-jumping and air dashing to characters from the SF cast seems like a logical extension to their existing playstyle while moving the forward into the Marvel world.
They missed with some characters though. Ryu really lost out by the time MVC2 came out. He technically lost moves. No second fireball (the flaming one) and no kick from SF3. His shoryuken is nowhere near as useful as in the SF games, and Hadouken’s lose to beams. He has no zoning games. What he needed was an angled Hadouken with reverse fireball motion, angled Shinku Hadouken, Jab DPs acting as a launcher, and Hurricane kicks passing through beams safely.
No need for an air dash. Give him his overhead, beam evasion on hurricane kick, and anti air hadoukens and supers and he would be well balanced, in flavour, and fit his usual design space.
This. I mean come on guys… jesus. Some of you are saying that characters shouldn’t have air dashes because they have no physical way to do it, and that it wouldn’t make sense. Tell me ANYTHING that makes since in MvC2.
I personally think that they yes, should give all characters an air dash. Not all characters 8-way’s.
An extremely way to keep the air dash mechanic balanced, and make more “sense” would be that characters like Dante would have a long air dash, where characters like Gief would have a very short air dash. It’s really not that hard when you think about it, and it fixes a hell of a lot of problems with the lower tiers from MvC2.
No, that would help some of the characters tremendously, since Sentinel gives problems to over half the cast in mvc2.
The assumption was never that Airdashes would magically “balance” the characters indefinitely, the whole point of having a universal Air Dash was so that it could help the characters who couldn’t do anything in the air to at least have something other then just Super Jump.
This isn’t about Ryu not being “built” well enough for a Marvel vs game, it’s about giving Ryu more options in the air. In nearly every Marvel vs game, having more flexibility in the Air has usually always been a good thing for any character who had it. Just because everyone having a Universal AirDash will not all of a sudden make the game more balanced. However it will definitely help the characters out on any regards.
Also, what mind would seriously believe that “if” Cable was in MvC3 that he would still have AHVB and with Airdash it’ll make him even more beast :wtf: I’m sure even Capcom would know full well not to allow him Ahvb again. So even though I understand the concept of Ryu vs Cyclops in the options that they have (which is a solitary character balance), that still doesn’t remove the fact that giving Ryu Airdashes w/ Double jump would already help him out in a department that has shown that if you don’t have more then one option there, you’ll have problems.
Having Universal AirDashes will not devalue character diversity, and it is not the be all, end all solution to balancing the game, anyone who thinks that is thinking way too far out of the box. However, it will definitely compensate for many characters lack of mobility when taking to the air without a doubt, which is important in a Marvel vs game. Yep, I’m with guys like Spider Dan and Higher Jin…we need Universal AD’s and DJ’s for everyone.
I am also in agreement that only certain characters should only have 8-Way Jumps, and Fly and Unfly…for example on the Capcom side who deserves fly/unfly mode should be Morrigan, she’s shown flying all the time and in a Marvel vs game, she should have the ability to do so.
only air dashes for the bottom of the barrel. universal airdashes would be dumb for marvel (it really does devalue character diversity. at least it would in marvel). some character should not get air dashes as it would not help their game, it would be stupid, or would be a buff which an already good character would not need. and of course it just jankifies the variety of play mvc2 has to offer.
even then, that air dash won’t help much still against god 4 lol. well at least not against the zoney/trappy teams.
Yeah an airdash wouldn’t help most characters against a trap because half of them have crappy moveset and they would airdash right back into a trap. Could you even imagine Strider with an airdash or trijump on Marvel.
exactly one of my points. lol sentinel with an airdash?
If Gief is in MvC3 just give him super armor. I don’t know why Capcom didn’t do this already since he’s always shown as Juggernaut/Hulk’s rival. It certainly wouldn’t break anything since it’s hard as fuck for Gief to get in on anyone in the Marvel games.
No 8 way dashes are re severed for the elite few
there are plenty of capcom characters i could see getting away with it. Ryu would look retarded tri dashing…
Universal air dashes doesn’t mean everyone gets the same mobility. Some characters can still double jump (I still say universal double jump AND air dash for everyone, save maybe a few), some triple jump, some can double air dash, some can back dash, and some get 8 way dash. Plus not everyone will have the same speed with their dashes/jumps. And don’t forget special moves that allow for fast movement like dive kicks, teleports, and charging attacks.
So yeah: Mobility won’t be homogenized even with universal double-jump/air dash.
While you’re at it, get me an approximate bulls-eye.
I not opposed to everyone having at least some type of a double jump. But give them different trajectories and properties:
I could see Redfield/Jill shoot a rocket and grab it quickly to gain momentum. Contra Style.
Super Skrull can flame on and fly. He should get fire effects on all air normals in the combo afterwards.
Thanos should be able to at least teleport as a double jump.
And so on…
On the airdashing, EVERYONE should be able to dash at least forward and backward in the air BUT NOT AT THE SAME FUCKING SPEED!! TvC fucked that up royally.
Just for clarification, I never said air dashes would instantly balance the game perfectly. What I am saying is that the game balance would probably be better if nearly everyone in the game had an advanced movement option (if not an air dash, then a short hop or a double jump). Also, in my opinion, I think the standard air dash should function like Omega Red’s in MvC2 (i.e. cancellable to allow high low mix up)
To those who said that an air dash wouldn’t help characters like Ryu compete in MvC2, all I have to say is it definitely wouldn’t make him worse. Getting in a combo with him is pretty hard work. Not only is Ryu slow on the ground, but he is difficult to control in the air, and when he gets up close all he can really do is c. lk, s. hp xxx hadouken, xxx shinkuu hadouken. He could at least threaten a mix up if he had some kind of overhead option into damage.
Now if he had such an overhead option, would that make him competitive with the top tier? Probably not. But at least he wouldn’t feel like such an incomplete character. Playing the the low tier chars in MvC2, I have to say that’s the feeling I get the most, “This can’t be all there is to this character, could it?” Unfortunately, it often is. Advanced movement options would definitely help, but will it solve all the problems? No, and I don’t think anyone ever said that it would.
As for the whole thing about cable/sentinel getting air dashes, it seems to be a pretty stupid point IMO. Marvel vs. Capcom 2 was not created with universal air dashes/short hops in mind. If it were, I don’t think a keep-away character like cable would be given a high priority, low angled jumping attack like j. rh. That probably would’ve been reserved for brawler type characters like sabretooth and wolverine. It’s difficult, if not impossible to say what the game would’ve been like if it were designed with that in mind, so I’m hesitant to say that. However, giving an extremely strong keep away character an extremely strong up close mix up is an obvious error in balancing that I hope Capcom would be smart enough to avoid. Then again, obvious errors in balancing is a recurring theme in the versus series, so I can see how someone could argue that might’ve happened.
I still find nothing convincing about handing out airdashes to the mobility impaired. Why not “think outside the bun” and do something new and noteworthy? We’ve come far enough to warrant diversity in characters, long gone are the days in which everyone was the same just with different special moves and hit boxes. I don’t see any reason why everyone should get an airdash. I didn’t see it as a good idea in TvC. GG and BB have it (for all but the Graps) and even then, it’s not exactly necessary because the characters have such varied playstyles.
You could just get rid of all the Capcom characters and solve the majority of the balance issues in one swoop.
If this game was Marvel vs. Strider/Tron/Commando/Cammy it would lose virtually nothing.